Children or no Children?

[hightower]

Side Hustle Scrubs wrote:

Hightower – congrats on expecting your first child. It will be a life changing experience.

Your advice of “The kid should be an accessory to YOUR life. Not the other way around” could only have been written by someone without kids.

I would like an update in November about how your accessory is fitting in to your pre-kid routine.

My advice to you is spend the next 4 months traveling, taking naps, going out to eat and going to the movie theater to see anything that looks remotely interesting. Take pictures so you will have something to reflect on during your 37th consecutive 2 am feeding.

Kids are great, but expect it to change every aspect of your life.

Click to expand...

I totally get that life will change and I completely understand that this is me talking before kids so obviously I don't have the experience to back this up. But, over the last 3-4 yrs all of our friends have had their first kids and we've watched the way they behave with them very closely. In all cases we feel like they let the kid dominate them way too much.  It's like they chose to give up on themselves using the kid as an excuse.

It just seems like they are making themselves more miserable than they need to.  If you like to do certain things now and want to keep doing them, don't let the kid stop you.  Find a way to make it work. WCI takes his kids backpacking, even the infant.  Surely if he can do that there's no reason the OP can't find a way to swim with her kid if she likes to do that every day.  Alligators are overrated anyway, lol.

 

[Tyche]

wideopenspaces wrote:

Is anyone else concerned OP may have been eaten by one of those lake Gators?

Click to expand...

I'm still worried about the suggestion she swim in that lake with her baby! Florida has enough stereotypes, we really shouldn't encourage it.  :lol:

 

 

[Steven Podnos MD CFP]

Raising our children in a two physician family was never easy-but I'd never change having done it.  This article may be of interest, especially to women physicians contemplating children: https://www.nationalreview.com/2018/05/motherhood-jennifer-fulwiler-book-one-beautiful-dream/

[wideopenspaces]

Is anyone else concerned OP may have been eaten by one of those lake Gators?

[YSH]

Interesting discussion.

We have a ten year old, and with a 9 years difference, now have a one year old.  During these ten years, many perspectives have changed, for myself and my partner.  When we were DINK, we had only one relationship/dynamic to deal with, my partner and mine.  Every major or minor issue affected only us two.  Compromise was easy.  With each additional member to the family unit, we added new relationships and dynamics.  Now, every change affects 4 individuals.  Some changes are simple, easy for all to accept, sweet and full of positive feelings. But some required a lot of sacrifice, commitment and tenacity.

As for the financial aspects of parenthood, know that money can take care of ALMOST everything.  From traveling (domestic or international) with or without help, nanny or daycare or both, to outsourcing domestic or time consuming tasks, if you are willing to throw money at it, then it will be done.

IMO, the only thing you shouldn't really outsource is the actual relationship/ mentoring/ parenting part.  So, are you up for that?

[AlexxT]

While my life changed after having kids, it didn't change that much.  As I said before, the "kids" hobby pushed out my other hobbies, but my life was otherwise the same.

We don't go out to eat much, we ordered in for a while, but honestly, we had started doing that before kids.  The same with movies.  Once we got a big screen TV and BluRay, Netflix was easier than going to the movies.

Kids don't cost that much on a doctor's salary.  All the hardware ( crib, dresser, diaper changing table, highchair, toys, etc ) costs around $2,000 total.  Diapers are a minor expense, trivial really.  Day care is the big one. For us, it's at the high end, $2,000 a month.  That expense remains if you go for private schools, and college.  That's it.  The clothing and toys get reused.  Daycare and tuition remains, however.  Still, it's quite manageable.  And once the youngest is 7 yo, they can do anything you do, with you.

[MSooner]

Eh, I think it can be somewhere in the middle of the two posts above. Yes, Hightower and his wife are going to go through "OMG what the ************************ just happened to every aspect of my life" that all new parents go through. It's absolutely inevitable with the first child. But all the other adventures he described sound wonderful and I think it is a good attitude towards parenthood.

The shock is definitely less with each kid! With our first, I felt I needed a packed diaper bag and entire car full of accessories (including a pump and a baby swing) to go to my mother's house (25 minutes away) for an afternoon.

With kid #3, I planned a last minute 48 hour getaway to NYC in December with my husband--because hey, I suddenly wasn't working, I could dump the older two at grandma's, and we had the hotel and airline points to do it! I drove 3 kids the four hours to grandma's by myself (husband had to work until his flight left) and then took 3 flights (AA points suck and I wasn't going to spend any money I didn't have to) with a 4 week old up to NYC. No diaper bag--just an ergo carrier, a few diapers/wipes in my purse, and a nursing cover. We had a blast! Little dude even accompanied us to a 9 pm dinner reservation and a boozy brunch. It was completely exhausting and I don't regret it at all!

We still travel a ton with all three kids. That usually means adjusting expectations and planning things out to make things kid friendly, but we still have a great time. Most of the time (though not always, ha) we are glad they are there sharing the experience with us.

[Side Hustle Scrubs]

Hightower - congrats on expecting your first child. It will be a life changing experience.

Your advice of “The kid should be an accessory to YOUR life. Not the other way around” could only have been written by someone without kids.

I would like an update in November about how your accessory is fitting in to your pre-kid routine.

My advice to you is spend the next 4 months traveling, taking naps, going out to eat and going to the movie theater to see anything that looks remotely interesting. Take pictures so you will have something to reflect on during your 37th consecutive 2 am feeding.

Kids are great, but expect it to change every aspect of your life.

[hightower]

jessikaur wrote:

I know being a parent gets rid of a lot of spontaneity, and everything needs to be planned out.. with tons of structure, so I can no longer come home from work, hop in the lake go for a swim and wait for my husband to get home to cook…

Click to expand...

Doesn't need to be this way.

I think for physicians who are already very accostumed to a life full of BIG responsibilities, having a kid isn't going to be THAT much different.  It's just another set of hoops to jump through each day.  Who's not already used to that in our profession?

I think it comes down to choices.  Who says you can't come home from work and still jump in the lake to go swimming??  Bring the kid with you!  They'll love it! The kid should be an accessory to YOUR life.  Not the other way around.  My wife's parents did exactly that with their 4 kids and they did it on a carpenter's salary (my mother in law worked part time after the kids were a little older).  They went everywhere and did everything with their kids.  From day one.  That's exactly the advice they've been giving us lately.  Don't let kids slow you down!  Live the life you want to live with them.  They will make it even more memorable.

Some of my best memories in life so far have been traveling with my in-laws who still act like they are all children when they get together.  This has been my main motivation for wanting my own kids.  We've all piled into a mini-van and taken huge road trips or met up in a national park and camped/hiked together.  The chaos that comes with those family gatherings is absolutely wonderful when you look back on it.  We often joke at how miserable some of those trips were in terms of being crammed together, often bickering, while at the same time laughing uncontrollably.  My mother in law is convinced that the more miserable you make a trip, the more memorable it will be.  I tend to agree.  It's hilarious to look back at some of the insane things we've done together...for example: convincing my 65 year old father in law to "go on a little hike/camping trip with us" not fully describing what he was actually in for (hiked to Phantom Ranch at the bottom of the Grand Canyon and back up again over 4 days or to the top of Half-Dome in Yosemite, or to Grinnell Lake in Glacier).  Listened to him cursing our names the entire hike (his slogan which he made into a T-Shirt is "I'm here, I must be stupid").  Or piling 8 people into a vintage "mini-winnebago" that had a top speed of 45 miles/hr and driving all the way from Ohio to the Florida Keys/Everglades or to Maine to visit Acadia.  It was SO MUCH FUN when we look back on it now.

Since I originally posted in response to this thread, my wife and I have found out we're expecting our first this October btw  As I mentioned before, my wife and I have traveled a lot over the last 7 years since residency.  Our trips have been awesome and super memorable, but the last few times we've gone somewhere, we've both felt like it would be so much better if we had more people there to share the fun with.  That's been a huge reason why we decided to start a family. We usually end up trying to invite friends or her parents/siblings to go with us, but they often can't.  So, with kids, we plan on dragging them everywhere!  They have no choice!  It's perfect for us!  And we want to live on her parent's farm some day, so the kids will also provide lots of free labor!  Lol

My advice to you is go for it!  If you think there's even a slight chance you would enjoy having a family, DO IT NOW!  I've still never met someone who honestly regrets having children, even my one friend who had an accidental baby at age 19 with a then girlfriend he now can't stand.  Despite this he loves his daughter and she's brought so much joy to his life.  I know it's not for everyone, but for someone like you that is so adventurous and spontaneous, you'll make an AWESOME mom.  Your sense of adventure sounds like my mother in law and believe me that's a huge compliment!

Fun thread by the way, thanks for starting it!

[burritos]

Side Hustle Scrubs wrote:

I have 3 kids – ages 8, 2 and 1.

Choosing to have kids is like choosing to become a doctor. You have to do it because you want it, not because someone else wants you to do it.

You should I have kids because you think you will always regret it if you don’t.

Kids are maddening and wonderful all at once.

I used to travel overseas. Now I don’t get to poop alone.

I used to go to the gym. Now I eat leftover hotdog bits I find on the couch.

You will look back at your childless days and wonder why you ever thought you were busy. You will forget what it means to have “me time”.

You will also have unconditional love and the sense you are living your life for someone other than yourself. Good luck.

Click to expand...

My second favorite food is leftovers.

[Steven Podnos MD CFP]

One of the most true quotes I've heard is "you are only as happy as your least happy child".

Before career changes, both my wife and I were/are physicians-and we raised three kids right after residencies/fellowships.  This was expensive, but not to the point of hurting us long term.  One of our kids developed a substance abuse issue, which was very costly in terms of our marital relationship and general stress.  Luckily, the kid got through that and is a joy again now.  So, it is not just money, constrained travel, etc that must be considered.

On the other hand, we have three grown children who we love and communicate with almost daily-it has been a pleasure seeing them grow up and become independent adults.

And life has never been better.  Life "after kids" can be wonderful.  You should have accumulated enough wealth to thoroughly enjoy life, and now you have much more time.  We travel a great deal, stay very busy, and life has never been better.

So, you can have it all-but during the child rearing years, there are certainly sacrifices.

[Side Hustle Scrubs]

I have 3 kids - ages 8, 2 and 1.

Choosing to have kids is like choosing to become a doctor. You have to do it because you want it, not because someone else wants you to do it.

You should I have kids because you think you will always regret it if you don’t.

Kids are maddening and wonderful all at once.

I used to travel overseas. Now I don’t get to poop alone.

I used to go to the gym. Now I eat leftover hotdog bits I find on the couch.

You will look back at your childless days and wonder why you ever thought you were busy. You will forget what it means to have “me time”.

You will also have unconditional love and the sense you are living your life for someone other than yourself. Good luck.

[AnjaliFIT]

This is definitely a personal choice and one my husband and I struggled with. He's a physician (hospital employed) and I'm a business owner just as a point of reference.  We were on a no kid plan for awhile but changed our minds after a trip to India.  It was enlightening to see our older relatives (especially my grandparents) quality of life and how much they enjoyed seeing their kids and grandkids.  We decided to have a child (we're on a 1 kid plan) and our daughter just turned two this week.  She is the joy of our lives and for me personally it helped bring balance to my life.  I'm a workaholic and highly goals driven so having a baby forced me to reassess my time and realize that its ok if I can't get to everything.  There is something about the unconditional love you have for a child that cannot be explained - you just realize it after you have one.  With that said, your life will change dramatically and I won't downplay that aspect.  We use to travel a lot and go to nice restaurants pre baby but now the priorities and values have shifted.  There is no right or wrong answer just what you think you both want long term.  Good luck and love this thread...nice to see the personal side of everyone!

[Anne]

Wow what a thread!  I guess I missed this the first time around.   I did not read the whole thing, just the last couple of days' worth, and only scanned the OP, but will add my 2 cents as a 40 y.o. female physician who is pretty certain that I am not going to have kids.  A few random thoughts:

1.  I really think there is an intrinsic desire to have children that most people have but some people don't.   I think of it as akin to sexual orientation--it's part of your biology.   I always assumed I would develop the desire to have children someday, but it never happened.   I like children, and love love love my nieces and nephews.   But I don't have any desire for "my own".   I decided that I wouldn't have them unless I truly wanted them--I think parenthood is really challenging, and the world has more than enough people, so the only reason for me to add more would be if I had a burning desire to do so.  I just don't have it.

2.  I have/had 5 aunts.   Only one didn't have children, and she had a very fulfilling and interesting life.  I was far closer to her than any of the rest, and in many ways she was like a second mom to me.   The other aunts were/are all very nice, but they had their own children to pay attention/devote their resources to and we never developed a bond like I did with my childless aunt.   Sadly she died in her early 60s, but if she hadn't I would have absolutely made sure she was well taken care of as she aged.   I don't think you have to be a parent to have a deep meaningful connection with a child that lasts even after the child is an adult.

3.  Having children is no guarantee that you won't be lonely or bored once they are out of the house.  In fact, often I see the reverse being true.   People can get so wrapped up in their kids they never develop other friendships or outside interests.  I have friends both with and without kids, and the ones without do put more effort in their friendships and self-development IMO.   The only exception is those who suffer from lifelong heartache over wanting kids and not being able to have them.   I can't relate but understand that must be a very painful void.

4.  If you do decide to not have children, you need a thick skin, esp as a female doctor.   I have been asked repeatedly over the past 10 years, from everyone from brand new patients who I've known all of 10 minutes to my hospital's CMO, whether I have children, and when I reply that I don't, the follow up of "why not?"   Unbelievable how nosy and rude people are.   I can't imagine how painful that situation would be if I was someone who wanted children and couldn't have them.  People will also make various assumptions about you based on your not having children--you just have to not care what other people think.

[Zaphod]

I think people could be happy either way, life is just very different, nothing is right or wrong. I'd be perfectly satisfied without any kids at all (assumes I didnt know what it was like with them), but I have them, and Im totally happy with that. Instead of pursuing hobbies and other interests now I just enjoy pushing the kid in the swing, going to the park and just watching them learn and grow, its great. Different but great.

Having older kids and now a toddler I am totally eating up this (hopefully) last time around, its so fast. Im sure later on I'll wish I had more, but we have to start sleeping better sometime. I really cant imagine not going on vacation, etc...without taking the kids, its part of the fun, them seeing new things. Theyre probably really different vacations and definitely harder, but as everyone says whats important just changes, and you dont care.