Children or no Children?

[IlliniGopher]

I am a hospitalist and my wife and I love to travel abroad.  We are in our 30s and seriously considered being DINKs.  Suffice to say, my daughter brings me an enjoyment in life that I could have never expected and I am that much happier and fulfilled.

We will probably stop at 1 child and travel with her tons (so far we stay domestic to the coasts).  But yes, it is ultimately a personal decision --- this is just how it was for my wife and I.

[Miss Bonnie MD]

IlliniGopher wrote:

I am a hospitalist and my wife and I love to travel abroad.  We are in our 30s and seriously considered being DINKs.  Suffice to say, my daughter brings me an enjoyment in life that I could have never expected and I am that much happier and fulfilled.

We will probably stop at 1 child and travel with her tons (so far we stay domestic to the coasts).  But yes, it is ultimately a personal decision — this is just how it was for my wife and I.

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We love to travel too. We have a small one now (7 months old) and I don't want us to turn into the family that doesn't travel because we have kids now. We are not planning to have another - it may partially be $$ related, but I am also almost 41 and have an 11 yo bonus son. I need to get over my fear of traveling via plane w the LO - the time changes I hear can be brutal.

[Tyche]

This has been a fantastic read. I hope you'll continue to update as things progress. The only comment I have is about responsibility and gender roles. It was sort of touched upon but not specifically. You mentioned a few times having to take on responsibility when your husband dropped the ball. He started the house remodel and you're the one who followed through. I think that's pretty typical in gender normative relationships. No matter how much of an egalitarian you thought your husband was we all revert back to our breeding. What kind of home did HE grow up in? Who did the housework? Cooking? Did his mom work? FT? That will speak volumes about the kind of father he will be and how much help you can expect. From where I'm sitting it doesn't matter if you both have high powered jobs. Someone is going to have to call out of work when the child is sick. It's usually the wife. Think about how many fathers you've seen split responsibility 50/50 let alone take on more than the mother. They're few and far between. That's why your husband left the decision up to you. It's the unspoken expectation that when it comes to sacrifices you'll make most of them.

I feel you. As I approach mid thirties the narrative changes from "I'm not ready" to "am I willing to commit to never having this life experience?" Jury is still out. What I do know is if/when we have kids I can't expect there to be a night and day reversal of marriage dynamics. It would be 80/20 if not 90/10. Heck, even that is optimistic. Since now it's 99/1 I should probably keep expectations low. Not to say you or I shouldn't have kids, but I'd rather be pleasantly surprised rather than shocked that my husband isn't contributing when he hasn't done his own laundry in half a decade.

[AlexxT]

My 2 cents:

Think of kids this way:  Raising children is like taking on a new hobby that consumes all your free time.  It will push out most of your other activities, but it will be by choice.  I stopped going to the gym on the way home from work as much as I used to, because I wanted to be home with the kids.  When my kids want to do something, I weigh what I want to be doing against the fact that they will never be 7 or 8 or 12 again, and usually spend time with them.  Recently, though, I have been able to resume my other activities, and share them with one of my kids ( the other is trying to assert independence ).

A quote from "Dr. Cox" on "Scrubs":  "Having a child is like having a dog who slowly learns to talk."

Travel:   Traveling with older kids is more fun than traveling alone or just with a spouse.  You will  have someone to share the experience with and teach, and someone to whom you can point out your favorite places.

I traveled a lot before I had kids.  My spouse traveled even more for work.  We traveled to Vietnam when my first one was 3 yo.  It was ok but I really didn't like traveling with a child so young.  Mind you, she was fine.  A kid with an ipad in coach has all the room in the world and might as well be in first class.  Give them their favorite ( junk ) food and they don't care where they are.  But they don't appreciate the experience.  They would rather be at the zoo.  In fact, all our 3 yo enjoyed and remembered was chasing crabs on the beach and feeding elephants at the zoo.  And safety for little kids is difficult.  Seat belts were hard to find and lugging around a car seat almost impossible.  I have always eaten street food, and occasionally gotten very ill.  But you can't afford to take chances with a young child, so we had to be very cautious about where we ate.

So, we decided not to travel with kids ( except to visit family ) until the youngest was around 8.  Travel is more fun when you have children to share it with, although even our 12 year old isn't quite able to appreciate the history and culture yet.

They also give a purpose and direction to life.  Without them, I think life would be too boring.  My only regret is that we didn't have more.

[burritos]

Before kids, we certainly did our share of jet setting to exotic places. After kids as a family from socal, we've settled down to regular trips to Canada and Hawaii. That's way more than enough for me and the kids. Not enough for my wife. So she basically has unlimited/unfettered ability to go where ever she wants with her friends(many are single female physicians, including a coven of female surgeons with no interest in kids) and sometimes by herself. That's fine with me. Sometimes it's CME(ACP was in New Orleans this year maybe will pass on Philly next year), sometimes it's a half marathon in New Mexico, sometimes it clubbing featuring David Guetta with her own table in LV(THAT's expensive). Having her go to 4-5 other places/year is way more cost effective and therapeutic than dragging the the whole family to a third travel destination. Kids are spoiled enough am I right? When it's just me and the kids, then bad cop gets control for a week. Need to spoil the other half of the bringer of the home bacon.

[Complete_newbie]

I didn't think I'd be very attached to kids or have kids but since I have one I love this little guy. Most of the day's I look forward to playing with this chub monster - he poops and can get cranky but it's fun and now I have direction in my life . May be it's psychology or may be hormonally driven (?) But a change happened after I became a father.

But

Where is the post on opportunity cost of having kids on the front page ? (Too soon???)

[burritos]

I have many family/friends who have no kids. These people have exciting adventurous interesting lives. They are constantly experiencing new things that are availed to them being educated and having means. I have many family/friends who do have kids(including myself), we people seem to have busy as heck lives. If I had to do it again, I would absolutely have my kids. My advice whether you should(and not you personally, just you as a high achieving, highly educated, societally contributing cohort)  have a kid? What I will say is that you WILL have wonderful fulfilling adventurous life, without kid/kids.

[MSooner]

I realize this is a bit of a zombie thread, but I'm curious to see if OP has had any thoughts on the matter since then!

As the female, non-medical spouse in the medical relationship, I understand that my perspective doesn't 100% apply to the OP. I willingly gave up my career and always knew I wanted to have kids. Definitely in a different position.

What I will say, though is that I feel like people discussing/making this decision get a little bit too hung up on the baby/toddler years. They are short and a small percentage of the entirety of the relationship you will eventually have with your child(ren). That's not to say they aren't (sometimes incredibly) difficult or that the adolescent, teenage, and even adult portions of this relationship are going to be easy either. It's sort of like medical training--some parts really suck, but you are working towards something. That something is still going to be a challenge even in the "attending" years, but it has tangible and intangible rewards.

[ticker]

I was just talking to my widowed, barely elderly mother.  As a single woman, she lived to get on an airplane and did so as much as she could.  Then, she married and made all the typical "sacrifices" (in quotes because I think she would challenge that choice of noun) of having kids and living on one modest income, traveling out of the country only twice in the next 18 years.  She just spent some time with a college friend who had no kids, led the exotic life, but is now feeling more isolated as their peers become less physically able to travel or recreate, or are dying.  It struck me how much my mom's investment in children is paying off now.  From going to grandkids' sports and school events, to joining one of our families on vacation, to always having a place to go to watch the big game, to taking her kids and spouses to the newest hip restaurant for a celebratory dinner...   she is every bit as busy as she wants to be.

I'm mindful that this can't be generalized too broadly, but her life seems so much more full at this stage than it would have been if she hadn't had children.  We are always giving her an excuse to do something/go somewhere, and I'm thrilled to see her reap this delayed fruit.  I had always thought of the initial investment and initial return of having kids.  I had never fully appreciated the depth that kids could add to life 30-40 years later.  The original social security, in more than just a financial sense.

[Zaphod]

I think people could be happy either way, life is just very different, nothing is right or wrong. I'd be perfectly satisfied without any kids at all (assumes I didnt know what it was like with them), but I have them, and Im totally happy with that. Instead of pursuing hobbies and other interests now I just enjoy pushing the kid in the swing, going to the park and just watching them learn and grow, its great. Different but great.

Having older kids and now a toddler I am totally eating up this (hopefully) last time around, its so fast. Im sure later on I'll wish I had more, but we have to start sleeping better sometime. I really cant imagine not going on vacation, etc...without taking the kids, its part of the fun, them seeing new things. Theyre probably really different vacations and definitely harder, but as everyone says whats important just changes, and you dont care.

[Anne]

Wow what a thread!  I guess I missed this the first time around.   I did not read the whole thing, just the last couple of days' worth, and only scanned the OP, but will add my 2 cents as a 40 y.o. female physician who is pretty certain that I am not going to have kids.  A few random thoughts:

1.  I really think there is an intrinsic desire to have children that most people have but some people don't.   I think of it as akin to sexual orientation--it's part of your biology.   I always assumed I would develop the desire to have children someday, but it never happened.   I like children, and love love love my nieces and nephews.   But I don't have any desire for "my own".   I decided that I wouldn't have them unless I truly wanted them--I think parenthood is really challenging, and the world has more than enough people, so the only reason for me to add more would be if I had a burning desire to do so.  I just don't have it.

2.  I have/had 5 aunts.   Only one didn't have children, and she had a very fulfilling and interesting life.  I was far closer to her than any of the rest, and in many ways she was like a second mom to me.   The other aunts were/are all very nice, but they had their own children to pay attention/devote their resources to and we never developed a bond like I did with my childless aunt.   Sadly she died in her early 60s, but if she hadn't I would have absolutely made sure she was well taken care of as she aged.   I don't think you have to be a parent to have a deep meaningful connection with a child that lasts even after the child is an adult.

3.  Having children is no guarantee that you won't be lonely or bored once they are out of the house.  In fact, often I see the reverse being true.   People can get so wrapped up in their kids they never develop other friendships or outside interests.  I have friends both with and without kids, and the ones without do put more effort in their friendships and self-development IMO.   The only exception is those who suffer from lifelong heartache over wanting kids and not being able to have them.   I can't relate but understand that must be a very painful void.

4.  If you do decide to not have children, you need a thick skin, esp as a female doctor.   I have been asked repeatedly over the past 10 years, from everyone from brand new patients who I've known all of 10 minutes to my hospital's CMO, whether I have children, and when I reply that I don't, the follow up of "why not?"   Unbelievable how nosy and rude people are.   I can't imagine how painful that situation would be if I was someone who wanted children and couldn't have them.  People will also make various assumptions about you based on your not having children--you just have to not care what other people think.

[AnjaliFIT]

This is definitely a personal choice and one my husband and I struggled with. He's a physician (hospital employed) and I'm a business owner just as a point of reference.  We were on a no kid plan for awhile but changed our minds after a trip to India.  It was enlightening to see our older relatives (especially my grandparents) quality of life and how much they enjoyed seeing their kids and grandkids.  We decided to have a child (we're on a 1 kid plan) and our daughter just turned two this week.  She is the joy of our lives and for me personally it helped bring balance to my life.  I'm a workaholic and highly goals driven so having a baby forced me to reassess my time and realize that its ok if I can't get to everything.  There is something about the unconditional love you have for a child that cannot be explained - you just realize it after you have one.  With that said, your life will change dramatically and I won't downplay that aspect.  We use to travel a lot and go to nice restaurants pre baby but now the priorities and values have shifted.  There is no right or wrong answer just what you think you both want long term.  Good luck and love this thread...nice to see the personal side of everyone!

[Side Hustle Scrubs]

I have 3 kids - ages 8, 2 and 1.

Choosing to have kids is like choosing to become a doctor. You have to do it because you want it, not because someone else wants you to do it.

You should I have kids because you think you will always regret it if you don’t.

Kids are maddening and wonderful all at once.

I used to travel overseas. Now I don’t get to poop alone.

I used to go to the gym. Now I eat leftover hotdog bits I find on the couch.

You will look back at your childless days and wonder why you ever thought you were busy. You will forget what it means to have “me time”.

You will also have unconditional love and the sense you are living your life for someone other than yourself. Good luck.

[Steven Podnos MD CFP]

One of the most true quotes I've heard is "you are only as happy as your least happy child".

Before career changes, both my wife and I were/are physicians-and we raised three kids right after residencies/fellowships.  This was expensive, but not to the point of hurting us long term.  One of our kids developed a substance abuse issue, which was very costly in terms of our marital relationship and general stress.  Luckily, the kid got through that and is a joy again now.  So, it is not just money, constrained travel, etc that must be considered.

On the other hand, we have three grown children who we love and communicate with almost daily-it has been a pleasure seeing them grow up and become independent adults.

And life has never been better.  Life "after kids" can be wonderful.  You should have accumulated enough wealth to thoroughly enjoy life, and now you have much more time.  We travel a great deal, stay very busy, and life has never been better.

So, you can have it all-but during the child rearing years, there are certainly sacrifices.

[burritos]

Side Hustle Scrubs wrote:

I have 3 kids – ages 8, 2 and 1.

Choosing to have kids is like choosing to become a doctor. You have to do it because you want it, not because someone else wants you to do it.

You should I have kids because you think you will always regret it if you don’t.

Kids are maddening and wonderful all at once.

I used to travel overseas. Now I don’t get to poop alone.

I used to go to the gym. Now I eat leftover hotdog bits I find on the couch.

You will look back at your childless days and wonder why you ever thought you were busy. You will forget what it means to have “me time”.

You will also have unconditional love and the sense you are living your life for someone other than yourself. Good luck.

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My second favorite food is leftovers.