Children or no Children?

[burritos]

AR wrote:

jessikaur wrote:

AR wrote:

jessikaur,

I hate to break it to you but your ebook is nonsense.  Don’t get me wrong, but the fundamental plan you outline for people via diet and exercise is fine.  It’s a fine plan and there is nothing wrong with it.  If someone can comply with it they will get good results and one can argue that plans involving intermittent fasting may be easier for some individuals to comply with.

Having said that the logic that you use to arrive at your prescribed plan is garbage. Sounds like Jason Fung in a different wrapper. For the purposes of weight loss, a calorie is a calorie*.  You can find youtubes of people losing weight on diets consisting wholly of ice cream or fast food (for example).   Such a diet would be incredibly difficult for most people to strictly adhere to, but it also works if done properly.

Once again, I’m not saying your advice is bad.  It’s just that the Fung-like logic you use to arrive at your conclusions is wrong.

Imagine that I prescribed the exact same diet and exercise plan that you did, but I said the reason to do it is because the Flying Spaghetti Monster appeared to me in a vision and told me that regimen was the key to health.  Now let’s say that someone believes it and follows my plan and starts to lose weight and feel better. That doesn’t make the Flying Spaghetti Monster real.

Similarly, just because your plan works, that doesn’t mean a calorie isn’t a calorie.  I guarantee if you weighed and measured your subjects food, you would find that they are all in negative energy balance (i.e., eating fewer calories than they expend).

 

*I’d be willing to accept certain qualifiers here, but not anything you mentioned

Click to expand…

and this is why the dogma is the dogma.

If you have time please listen to this grand rounds given by Dr. Fung

I recently gave a new presentation for Medical Grand Rounds at the Scarborough Health Network. Here’s a link to the lecture – https://youtu.be/dbBnvndQok0

I can understand (and respect) why people would be resistant especially to something so foreign as “fasting” but the truth is, what we have been spouting (and I’ve seen it through this thread) has NOT been working. People are getting more obese (not less) and more unhealthy (not healthy) with the typical BS we have been spouting, eat less, exercise more… it DOESN’T work. and it’s not sustainable. We need to find solutions that people can stick to and make their lifestyle. People cannot sustain eating 1200 calories a day in and day out. (that’s how many I’m allowed by current dogma) and it is miserable, and I was still gaining weight despite exercising! this is the truth for most people.

I will agree with you, that any diet can cause weight loss, but is that weight loss sustainable? is the way they lost the weight healthy? I implore you to do your own research, STEM TALK is a podcast that I listen to and is filled with the greatest scientific minds, it is very boring to listen to if you’re not a scientist. I feel like most doctors are scientists at heart. Please take a moment as your exercising and listen to Dr. Panda’s lecture, or the one from Volter Longo before making up your mind.

There is no Fung-like logic. His “logic” is science. Why do you think type 1 diabetics died until we provided them insulin? they could never gain any weight!

Be a scientist, do your own research.

Click to expand…

I’m very familiar with his work and I’ve read his book.  His logic is not “science”.  His misrepresents and misinterprets studies because he knows that almost no one is going to bother to look up and read the primary sources.

You also have seemed to have missed my simple point.  There is nothing wrong with the plan he describes.  He’s promoting a perfectly healthy diet.  It’s just that the logic underlying it is wrong. Take the bolded for example.  He’s just pulling that out of thin air. Find me someone on the side of “dogma” that recommends that as a maintenance diet for an adult.  Even for a very tiny adult, you’re not going to get to 1200.

Also gaining weight while actually doing that is thermodynamically impossible. Especially on a continual basis.

This claim is just absolute garbage on it’s face.

This is kind of the thing he just does over and over again.  It’s sad that educated people fall for it.  And they always fall back on the same excuse:  Well his recommendations work.  And they do.  It does not mean that all the idiocy that he used to get to that conclusion is correct also.

 

 

Click to expand...

As duped person enamored by his(Dr. Fung's) strategy, I may have been blind to some of his con like suppositions. I always am willing to learn. Can you please remind or identify for me some of the idiotic claims?

[ACPC]

AR - A fellow pastafarian?! Those who decry the sacred carbohydrate by sacrilegious fad diet prescription must be converted to the way of the noodle. Ramen!

[Anne]

jessikaur wrote:

Why do you think type 1 diabetics died until we provided them insulin? they could never gain any weight!

Click to expand...

And here I thought they died from the effects of diabetic ketoacidosis.

I'm so glad this forum exists to set me straight from all those silly things I learned in medical school.

[Tangler]

fatlittlepig wrote:

The White Coat Investor wrote:

I suspect that most will have regrets either way. At times I regret having kids and I’m positive I would have regretted not having them.

It’s a huge commitment of time and resources, but it comes with a great deal of reward and far more important to me than either of my careers.

You can certainly travel with kids, but you will almost surely travel less than you are without them.

Click to expand…

fatlittlepig has never even for one millisecond regretted having fatlittlepigs.

Click to expand...

FLP says: "fatlittlepig has never even for one millisecond regretted having fatlittlepigs."

No. Not acceptable. We MUST refer to these offspring as fat-little-piglets. No debate. I am sure they are amazing, but call them what they are, please.

[Lordosis]

The chance of my deeds having a meaningful impact on this world are incredibly small.

We can leave something behind in our children.  I have been given 4 more chances to make an impact. Still an awfully low chance but perhaps their progeny.

My wife and I have the time, means, ability, and love to do this. It is not for everyone.  Intentionally having a kid means living your life for someone else.  It has been hard, very hard, at times but we never regret it.

 

AR has got the diet conundrum right.  Fad diets, Science diets, what have you,  only work because you limit your daily caloric intake.  If I ate 3000 cal of avocados a day I would gain weight among other issues it would cause.  There is no evil macro nutrient.

[Jaqen Haghar MD]

jessikaur wrote:

Tim wrote:

@peds,
jessikaur wrote:
I think I’m coming to the conclusion that I just don’t want to have kids
ok.

next…

Looks like this might be bad for your business.
I commend you for professionalism in the face of such adversity. Carryon.

Click to expand…

Tim,

I know, every time I come on this forum I inevitably regret it, hence I come on q1 year or when I’ve had a pressing issue. Why do you think most first time posters apologize for posting? I think there are 95% people on this forum genuinely here to help people and collaborate, and there’s about 5% (overly represented) who come on here to ridicule people. I can’t explain that, but it’s not a problem for me. I usually go with the motto, “kill ’em with kindness.” or the golden rule.

Anyway, this post has gotten out of control. It’s about kids! and wanting them/having them/etc.  So anyone interested in the diet discussion can PM me or start a new post. I think I’ll go back into hibernation for another year! Thank you all for your advice, it is truly appreciated it.

 

 

We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence then is not an act, but a habit.
– Aristotle.

 

Click to expand...

I think the diet info is good and interesting.  I agree that some of the logic behind it not great, but if in practice it works, who really cares about the theory?  Some people like to debate theories endlessly, especially on the internet, and especially on forums.  But dieting, working out, bodybuilding, weight loss are really about measurable results.

If it works for you or others..  Do it. Try it.  If not. Toss it.

As far as kids, I’m not having any either.  There are too many people in this world already, and conditions for replication are not ideal.  It’s the selfless choice.

PS- I do drink milk like I’m a baby cow.... Giant’s milk.  Holla, Tormund!

[Lordosis]

Giant's bane does sound better than giant's babe.

[AR]

burritos wrote:

As duped person enamored by his(Dr. Fung’s) strategy, I may have been blind to some of his con like suppositions. I always am willing to learn. Can you please remind or identify for me some of the idiotic claims?

Click to expand...

Well there were two things in the post I responded to.  Specifically,

1. The idea that there is anyone out there that claims 1200 kcal/day is sufficient for a maintenance diet for an adult.  Literally no one is claiming this, yet he just lies and says it's the dogma.  I'm not sure what the "dogma" is.  But that's definitely not it.  So he fabricates a claim, represents it as "dogma" and then attacks it.  It's intellectually dishonest and should be obvious to anyone.

2. He then goes on to claim that he was gaining weight on 1200 kcal a day despite exercising.  Even the most fervent Fung believer has to know that's clearly impossible. It's an obviously false claim.  Do you believe it?

 

I can understand being "duped" by him.  I've repeatedly said his strategy works.  That's not the problem.

 

[AR]

ACPC wrote:

AR – A fellow pastafarian?! Those who decry the sacred carbohydrate by sacrilegious fad diet prescription must be converted to the way of the noodle. Ramen!

Click to expand...

Not a pastafarian, but I'm very sympathetic to their cause.

[Kamban]

I am not sure if I am reading a thread on Children Vs. No children or a thread on diabetics to go off medications or a weight loss thread or what. I might have commented in the past on the joy a child brings to me but I am not sure and there are too many pages to sort through..

[Financial Naive MD]

Once we have our kids, we (my wife and I) are willing to give up anything, everything including our lives, if we have to choose between these and our kids.  There is no condition nor negotiation.  So, think carefully before you have one.  No regrets for us.

[burritos]

AR wrote:

burritos wrote:

As duped person enamored by his(Dr. Fung’s) strategy, I may have been blind to some of his con like suppositions. I always am willing to learn. Can you please remind or identify for me some of the idiotic claims?

Click to expand…

Well there were two things in the post I responded to.  Specifically,

1. The idea that there is anyone out there that claims 1200 kcal/day is sufficient for a maintenance diet for an adult.  Literally no one is claiming this, yet he just lies and says it’s the dogma.  I’m not sure what the “dogma” is.  But that’s definitely not it.  So he fabricates a claim, represents it as “dogma” and then attacks it.  It’s intellectually dishonest and should be obvious to anyone.

2. He then goes on to claim that he was gaining weight on 1200 kcal a day despite exercising.  Even the most fervent Fung believer has to know that’s clearly impossible. It’s an obviously false claim.  Do you believe it?

 

I can understand being “duped” by him.  I’ve repeatedly said his strategy works.  That’s not the problem.

 

Click to expand...

I never knew he claimed that people were gaining weight on 1200 cal. I don't think you can gain weight on 1200 cal/day.

[CordMcNally]

Kamban wrote:

I am not sure if I am reading a thread on Children Vs. No children or a thread on diabetics to go off medications or a weight loss thread or what. I might have commented in the past on the joy a child brings to me but I am not sure and there are too many pages to sort through..

Click to expand...

This is the potpourri thread. Feel free to discuss any other topic of your choosing here.

[Lithium]

Awesome game from the Splash Brothers.  I imagine Denver/Portland will be little more than a speed bump.  Anyone think the Bucks or Raptors can make the finals competitive?

[adventure]

Wow.

Can we lock this thread now please??