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  • Gender Pay Gap

    Thoughts on this article? I am assuming they are controlling for part-time/full-time status and years of experience. Is it hustle factor or employed base pay? I know in my office, we have 4 females and 2 males... my productivity rivals one of my male colleagues but the other does the schedule therefore always works the "Monday" holidays and gets extra cash to take call (which I don't want to argue about)... he would also sign up for the scheduled c-sections (easy and get $$ for it!) until we pointed it out and told him no! This would have changed his pay considerably without much effort.
    https://c8y.doxcdn.com/image/upload/...eport-2021.pdf
    28% is a ton of $$$
    Bummer that this still is happening and seems to be getting worse.

  • #2
    Originally posted by SLC OB View Post
    Thoughts on this article? I am assuming they are controlling for part-time/full-time status and years of experience. Is it hustle factor or employed base pay? I know in my office, we have 4 females and 2 males... my productivity rivals one of my male colleagues but the other does the schedule therefore always works the "Monday" holidays and gets extra cash to take call (which I don't want to argue about)... he would also sign up for the scheduled c-sections (easy and get $$ for it!) until we pointed it out and told him no! This would have changed his pay considerably without much effort.
    https://c8y.doxcdn.com/image/upload/...eport-2021.pdf
    28% is a ton of $$$
    Bummer that this still is happening and seems to be getting worse.
    I just skimmed it, but I didn't see any explicit statement about bolded.

    Maybe they controlled for bolded but what they really need to control for is hours worked. Even among "full time" docs there are wide variations in the number of hours worked. Better yet they could control for some sort of output measure (e.g. wRVUs generated). Controlling for that, there is no way there is a gender pay difference of 28%.

    It would be crazy to ever hire a male doc if you could get an equally competent female doc at such a bargain.

    I'm not saying there would be no difference, but there is no way it is 28%.

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    • #3
      I never know how I feel about self-reported compensation surveys.

      Comment


      • #4
        Wife isn’t a physician, but a few years ago before she did consulting she was employed by a University. Despite being more competent and having a better work ethic, she was paid less than her male counterparts. I don’t recall how big the gap was, but it was real.

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        • #5
          Originally posted by pierre View Post
          Wife isn’t a physician, but a few years ago before she did consulting she was employed by a University. Despite being more competent and having a better work ethic, she was paid less than her male counterparts. I don’t recall how big the gap was, but it was real.
          It's a lot easier to have gender pay gaps in specialties that are not medicine.

          In medicine, the Medicare fee schedule is the great equalizer. It doesn't care if you are male or female. If you bill for a certain code, that is what comes in. There is no room for subjectivity and the amount is known to everyone.

          This is not to say there is zero gap. But 28% is just not possible (over the entire population of docs) for identical collections.

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          • #6
            There's a pay gap in my dept at the VA. Our medical director straight up told me this and plans to get around to fixing it . . .when he feels like it ( giant eye roll). I don't think it's intentional, the problem is he works hard to give his friends titles that will give them more money and his friends just happen to be all men. Funny how that works! I seriously have people with less experience than myself making at least 10% more than me. Or with one more year of experience working 20% less making 20% more. I try not to think about it too hard because it's so frustrating. I do intend to come up with a game plan to address the issue this year.

            When I was in academics I ran into similar situations where male attendings got the cushy gigs that allowed them to easily get enough "extra" RVUs that would qualify them for a bonus that was otherwise impossible to attain. So it's not intentional, it's just people being people within the system.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by wideopenspaces View Post
              There's a pay gap in my dept at the VA. Our medical director straight up told me this and plans to get around to fixing it . . .when he feels like it ( giant eye roll). I don't think it's intentional, the problem is he works hard to give his friends titles that will give them more money and his friends just happen to be all men. Funny how that works! I seriously have people with less experience than myself making at least 10% more than me. Or with one more year of experience working 20% less making 20% more. I try not to think about it too hard because it's so frustrating. I do intend to come up with a game plan to address the issue this year.

              When I was in academics I ran into similar situations where male attendings got the cushy gigs that allowed them to easily get enough "extra" RVUs that would qualify them for a bonus that was otherwise impossible to attain. So it's not intentional, it's just people being people within the system.
              This seems particularly egregious. And even here we don't get to 28%.

              Now try and imagine that 28% is the average discrepancy.

              I do believe there is a gap, but there is no way it is that high.

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              • #8
                Google the Uber driver gender pay gap study.

                In my department women have always made less. Coincidentally, they are less productive: work fewer days; work shorter hours; take all their PTO; took more time off when they had kids; less likely to take extra call; less likely to want admin roles. It all adds up.

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by FIREshrink View Post
                  Google the Uber driver gender pay gap study.

                  In my department women have always made less. Coincidentally, they are less productive: work fewer days; work shorter hours; take all their PTO; took more time off when they had kids; less likely to take extra call; less likely to want admin roles. It all adds up.

                  Interesting freakenomics podcast covering this.

                  Large study. Results surprised the investigators.

                  https://freakonomics.com/podcast/wha...ender-pay-gap/

                  Some posts/threads are best left alone. little to gain
                  Last edited by Tangler; 01-22-2022, 02:35 AM.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by pierre View Post
                    Wife isn’t a physician, but a few years ago before she did consulting she was employed by a University. Despite being more competent and having a better work ethic, she was paid less than her male counterparts. I don’t recall how big the gap was, but it was real.
                    Lousy regardless but was it a negotiation issue? Why didn’t she require it be rectified when the information came to light?

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Jim had a female surgeon on his podcast talk about how she had many patients see her for a consult for elective surgery, she would explain everything, answer their questions, etc., and then they would go sign up with a male surgeon to do the actual surgery. Jim sounded surprised but no female doctor listening to that podcast would be surprised.

                      This topic has come up before on this forum and every time there is a chorus of men saying either it doesn’t exist and that if it does the women are doing things to bring it on themselves. I don’t expect men to be able to eliminate the gender pay gap as much of it is embedded in societal bias but I do expect them to at least acknowledge there are factors in the workplace that might keep women from being as “productive” as men and that might keep women out of admin/leadership roles (such as being interrupted/talked over in meetings at a much more frequent rate than men, their ideas ignored and then accepted when presented by a man, being passed over for a less experienced/competent male)—at some point, women are going to say forget it and go enjoy their lives. There’s only so much time any one person can spend swimming upstream.

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                      • #12
                        It (gender gap pay) does NOT exist in private practice radiology.

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                        • #13
                          "The physician gender pay gap has increased over the last five years, even when controlled for specialty, location, and years of experience."

                          Are we controlling for:

                          Days worked
                          Hours worked
                          Weekends worked
                          Productivity

                          I'm a PP rad and the partners make equal salary and distributions. We also work equal number of days/calls/holidays.

                          We also have employed rads and they work differing amount of days/week. Some (all female) only want to work part-time, no weekends, no evenings, no nights. The part-timers are paid by the shift (no work no pay) so their annual take home salary is entirely dependent on how much they want to work. Our weekend/evening/night shifts pay significantly more but that's because the shifts are busy and the hours suck.

                          So does Doximity account for this? Or are they just good at making Powerpoint slides?

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Anne View Post
                            )—women are going to say forget it and go enjoy their lives.
                            Well, there's your problem right there.

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by FIREshrink View Post

                              Well, there's your problem right there.
                              Nope, that’s the problem of the organization you left that no longer has your skills.

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