Need help with contract and Maternity Leave Finances

[Miss Bonnie MD]

I am expecting and my due date is mid October. I am planning on taking 12 weeks off. I work for a large hospital system. There is 6 (vaginal) or 8 (c-s) weeks of paid leave at my base salary (this is paid out by a short term disability plan paid for by the hospital), I have 2 weeks of saved vacation. The rest will be unpaid - about 4 weeks.

I was just informed (after going back and forth with HR and my dept business admin) that despite me not getting paid by the dept (besides 2 weeks PTO) - I am STILL responsible for "making" my salary. I am paid a base salary and anything over the base threshold (let's say for illustration purposes I need to make double my base) - I get paid out as bonus pay.

So they are telling me that I am STILL responsible for bringing in TWICE my base for that 12 week period. This means I need to make up twice my base when I return from maternity leave before I make incentive. I re-read my contract and it does not say this anywhere and it actually says my base salary can be "pro-rated as appropriate." I have re-emailed HR and my business admin.

 

1) Is this possible?

2) I emailed HR and my business admin again, saying this does not make sense to me and it is NOT in the contract. Next steps? Who to escalate after?

3) Should I speak to a lawyer???

[AR]

To be honest, I'm not 100% sure what you're saying, but if I understand you correctly, my default interpretation would have been exactly what your employer is telling you.  Moreover, I think that there is nothing unfair about it and it is pretty standard.

Once again, this assumes that I'm understanding you correctly.

[wideopenspaces]

This doesn't make sense to me for several reasons. When you normally take PTO do you have to make up your salary?

If you are being paid by a disability plan, you by definition can't work during that time so I'm not sure how it would be legal for them to have you make up that time.

And even the last 2 weeks of unpaid leave seems like your base salary just goes to zero during that time so it should again be taken care of.

I just don't understand how they could force you to work and not pay you for it.

You are using FMLA time to cover all this, correct? I have never in my life heard of an employer making an employee make up their FMLA time. I knew maternity leave was crappy, but this is the worst I've ever heard.

At my institution we get 6 weeks paid parental leave, then another 6 weeks that is paid if you have enough sick and vacation time to cover it. Otherwise it is unpaid. Then after my 12 weeks I cut my FTE to 0.25 and so my salary was dropped accordingly and I was no longer eligible for benefits, including any incentive pay. But there was no talk of making up the time I was off. Just seems crazy to me.

[AR]

wideopenspaces wrote:

This doesn’t make sense to me for several reasons. When you normally take PTO do you have to make up your salary?

If you are being paid by a disability plan, you by definition can’t work during that time so I’m not sure how it would be legal for them to have you make up that time.

And even the last 2 weeks of unpaid leave seems like your base salary just goes to zero during that time so it should again be taken care of.

I just don’t understand how they could force you to work and not pay you for it.

You are using FMLA time to cover all this, correct? I have never in my life heard of an employer making an employee make up their FMLA time. I knew maternity leave was crappy, but this is the worst I’ve ever heard.

At my institution we get 6 weeks paid parental leave, then another 6 weeks that is paid if you have enough sick and vacation time to cover it. Otherwise it is unpaid. Then after my 12 weeks I cut my FTE to 0.25 and so my salary was dropped accordingly and I was no longer eligible for benefits, including any incentive pay. But there was no talk of making up the time I was off. Just seems crazy to me.

Click to expand...

I don't think the employer is saying that they're not going to pay her when she gets back.  All the employer is saying is that the conditions for hitting the bonus pay are the same whether she takes maternity leave or not.  She will get her base pay once she starts working again.

Once again, this assumes my interpretation is correct.

 

[Miss Bonnie MD]

AR wrote:

To be honest, I’m not 100% sure what you’re saying, but if I understand you correctly, my default interpretation would have been exactly what your employer is telling you.  Moreover, I think that there is nothing unfair about it and it is pretty standard.

Once again, this assumes that I’m understanding you correctly.

Click to expand...

Let's say I was in PP and it was an eat what you kill situation.

I take unpaid leave (whatever the reason) - 12 weeks. I don't get paid at all. Fine.

I come back and start working and I get whatever I kill %. Right?

My employer is saying I have to make up for the lost INCOME I would've brought in during that 12 weeks. So I start my return to work at NEGATIVE let's say $150K. I can understand them wanting me to pay back overhead costs etc, but that is not the same as my actual salary.

I re read my salary and I think in the end I will lose because of how it's worded, but wow, it's screwy. My saving grace I think is that I currently work a free clinic once a month with lost revenue from that. My schedule is not in my clinic. I may say I refuse to work that clinic since it hurts me and hurts me more since I'm taking paid leave. I considered it my charity to the field. But I think I'm done with this charity.

[q-school]

I'm not sure what anyone is saying.
What if you didn't have a pregnancy and didn't "make" your salary? Would they stop paying you? That's the point of a salary.

I'm pretty sure if you were going to bonus you can kiss that part goodbye however.

[Miss Bonnie MD]

AR wrote:

wideopenspaces wrote:

This doesn’t make sense to me for several reasons. When you normally take PTO do you have to make up your salary?

If you are being paid by a disability plan, you by definition can’t work during that time so I’m not sure how it would be legal for them to have you make up that time.

And even the last 2 weeks of unpaid leave seems like your base salary just goes to zero during that time so it should again be taken care of.

I just don’t understand how they could force you to work and not pay you for it.

You are using FMLA time to cover all this, correct? I have never in my life heard of an employer making an employee make up their FMLA time. I knew maternity leave was crappy, but this is the worst I’ve ever heard.

At my institution we get 6 weeks paid parental leave, then another 6 weeks that is paid if you have enough sick and vacation time to cover it. Otherwise it is unpaid. Then after my 12 weeks I cut my FTE to 0.25 and so my salary was dropped accordingly and I was no longer eligible for benefits, including any incentive pay. But there was no talk of making up the time I was off. Just seems crazy to me.

Click to expand…

I don’t think the employer is saying that they’re not going to pay her when she gets back.  All the employer is saying is that the conditions for hitting the bonus pay are the same whether she takes maternity leave or not.  She will get her base pay once she starts working again.

Once again, this assumes my interpretation is correct.

 

Click to expand...

So IMO, my bonus threshold should be pro rated since I'm not working and not getting paid. If they were paying me my base salary during my whole leave then I titally get that I need to make it up. But, I'm not getting paid so why do I need to make up my base salary?

 

AR, I see what you are saying, the bonus threshold is the same regardless if I take leave or not... but the threshold is my base salary. Feel free to enlighten me.

[Miss Bonnie MD]

q-school wrote:

I’m not sure what anyone is saying.
What if you didn’t have a pregnancy and didn’t “make” your salary? Would they stop paying you? That’s the point of a salary.

I’m pretty sure if you were going to bonus you can kiss that part goodbye however.

Click to expand...

We have a guaranteed base so even if we are working and not making our base (base x 2 really) - but that is not the case. I (and everyone else) all make MORE than make our base easily. We all bonus.

But we are required to make our salary before we bonus and we all do plus more, way more.

Sorry if my original post isn't clear.

[Miss Bonnie MD]

wideopenspaces wrote:

This doesn’t make sense to me for several reasons. When you normally take PTO do you have to make up your salary?

If you are being paid by a disability plan, you by definition can’t work during that time so I’m not sure how it would be legal for them to have you make up that time.

And even the last 2 weeks of unpaid leave seems like your base salary just goes to zero during that time so it should again be taken care of.

I just don’t understand how they could force you to work and not pay you for it.

You are using FMLA time to cover all this, correct? I have never in my life heard of an employer making an employee make up their FMLA time. I knew maternity leave was crappy, but this is the worst I’ve ever heard.

At my institution we get 6 weeks paid parental leave, then another 6 weeks that is paid if you have enough sick and vacation time to cover it. Otherwise it is unpaid. Then after my 12 weeks I cut my FTE to 0.25 and so my salary was dropped accordingly and I was no longer eligible for benefits, including any incentive pay. But there was no talk of making up the time I was off. Just seems crazy to me.

Click to expand...

I am making these numbers up for illustration purposes:

The way our pay/incentive is structured is our base is X, and anything above 2x per quarter is paid out as bonus. So we bonus quarterly.

They are saying I need to make up the 2x not generated during my 12 weeks off to bonus again.

[wideopenspaces]

Miss Bonnie MD wrote:

wideopenspaces wrote:

This doesn’t make sense to me for several reasons. When you normally take PTO do you have to make up your salary?

If you are being paid by a disability plan, you by definition can’t work during that time so I’m not sure how it would be legal for them to have you make up that time.

And even the last 2 weeks of unpaid leave seems like your base salary just goes to zero during that time so it should again be taken care of.

I just don’t understand how they could force you to work and not pay you for it.

You are using FMLA time to cover all this, correct? I have never in my life heard of an employer making an employee make up their FMLA time. I knew maternity leave was crappy, but this is the worst I’ve ever heard.

At my institution we get 6 weeks paid parental leave, then another 6 weeks that is paid if you have enough sick and vacation time to cover it. Otherwise it is unpaid. Then after my 12 weeks I cut my FTE to 0.25 and so my salary was dropped accordingly and I was no longer eligible for benefits, including any incentive pay. But there was no talk of making up the time I was off. Just seems crazy to me.

Click to expand…

I am making these numbers up for illustration purposes:

The way our pay/incentive is structured is our base is X, and anything above 2x per quarter is paid out as bonus. So we bonus quarterly.

They are saying I need to make up the 2x not generated during my 12 weeks off to bonus again.

Click to expand...

So for example, normally your threshold is 10 RVU to get a base salary. If you produce over 20 RVU, you get paid extra. When you come back from leave, they expect you to produce 40 RVU to get beyond your base salary. Right? So you are being expected to do work for which you are not being paid. I don't understand how this can be legal.

What would happen if you had a good quarter and you got incentive pay for producing 25 RVU and the next quarter you only produced 5 RVU for some reason. Would they make you pay back the first quarter incentive pay? Or would you be expected to produce 35 in the third quarter before getting the incentive pay again? At my job, each quarter is independent. The slate is wiped clean after each quarter, there is no cumulative tally. If you hit the threshold one quarter, great! You get extra pay. If you don't the next, you don't get the pay, but the deficit doesn't carry over.

Frankly, if my employer was telling me this and a contract lawyer told me this was perfectly legal, I'd be looking for another job. This is crazy.

[Miss Bonnie MD]

You nailed it wideopenspaces.

Now id be ok with having to make up some of it since there is still overhead whether I am there or not but that's nowhere near double my base salary

[AR]

wideopenspaces wrote:

Miss Bonnie MD wrote:

wideopenspaces wrote:

This doesn’t make sense to me for several reasons. When you normally take PTO do you have to make up your salary?

If you are being paid by a disability plan, you by definition can’t work during that time so I’m not sure how it would be legal for them to have you make up that time.

And even the last 2 weeks of unpaid leave seems like your base salary just goes to zero during that time so it should again be taken care of.

I just don’t understand how they could force you to work and not pay you for it.

You are using FMLA time to cover all this, correct? I have never in my life heard of an employer making an employee make up their FMLA time. I knew maternity leave was crappy, but this is the worst I’ve ever heard.

At my institution we get 6 weeks paid parental leave, then another 6 weeks that is paid if you have enough sick and vacation time to cover it. Otherwise it is unpaid. Then after my 12 weeks I cut my FTE to 0.25 and so my salary was dropped accordingly and I was no longer eligible for benefits, including any incentive pay. But there was no talk of making up the time I was off. Just seems crazy to me.

Click to expand…

I am making these numbers up for illustration purposes:

The way our pay/incentive is structured is our base is X, and anything above 2x per quarter is paid out as bonus. So we bonus quarterly.

They are saying I need to make up the 2x not generated during my 12 weeks off to bonus again.

Click to expand…

So for example, normally your threshold is 10 RVU to get a base salary. If you produce over 20 RVU, you get paid extra. When you come back from leave, they expect you to produce 40 RVU to get beyond your base salary. Right? So you are being expected to do work for which you are not being paid. I don’t understand how this can be legal.

What would happen if you had a good quarter and you got incentive pay for producing 25 RVU and the next quarter you only produced 5 RVU for some reason. Would they make you pay back the first quarter incentive pay? Or would you be expected to produce 35 in the third quarter before getting the incentive pay again? At my job, each quarter is independent. The slate is wiped clean after each quarter, there is no cumulative tally. If you hit the threshold one quarter, great! You get extra pay. If you don’t the next, you don’t get the pay, but the deficit doesn’t carry over.

Frankly, if my employer was telling me this and a contract lawyer told me this was perfectly legal, I’d be looking for another job. This is crazy.

Click to expand...

Well bolded is not exactly true, arguably she was paid for that work in advance.

Furthermore, it would be odd if it were illegal.  What prevents the employer for just offering a contract where it takes 40 RVU to get over the same base.  It's a worse deal, for sure.  IANAL, but for a salaried professional, I think just about any deal is legal (it's not like we're flirting with minimum wage violations here).

I am also not clear on whether it's a clean slate every quarter or if deficits are carried over in perpetuity.  The former system favors the employee while the latter favors the employer.  I wouldn't say that either is inherently unfair.  And the latter is certainly not crazy.  For example, in the case of a solo private practitioner, that is the precise reality of their situation.

Standard disclaimer (above assumes I understand everything correctly) applies.

[AR]

Miss Bonnie MD wrote:

You nailed it wideopenspaces.

Now id be ok with having to make up some of it since there is still overhead whether I am there or not but that’s nowhere near double my base salary

Click to expand...

From their perspective, the salary that they pay you while you are out is overhead. And we know from the contract structure what it takes for them to cover overhead: double base.

Standard disclaimer applies.

[The White Coat Investor]

Miss Bonnie MD wrote:

I am expecting and my due date is mid October. I am planning on taking 12 weeks off. I work for a large hospital system. There is 6 (vaginal) or 8 (c-s) weeks of paid leave at my base salary (this is paid out by a short term disability plan paid for by the hospital), I have 2 weeks of saved vacation. The rest will be unpaid – about 4 weeks.

I was just informed (after going back and forth with HR and my dept business admin) that despite me not getting paid by the dept (besides 2 weeks PTO) – I am STILL responsible for “making” my salary. I am paid a base salary and anything over the base threshold (let’s say for illustration purposes I need to make double my base) – I get paid out as bonus pay.

So they are telling me that I am STILL responsible for bringing in TWICE my base for that 12 week period. This means I need to make up twice my base when I return from maternity leave before I make incentive. I re-read my contract and it does not say this anywhere and it actually says my base salary can be “pro-rated as appropriate.” I have re-emailed HR and my business admin.

 

1) Is this possible?

2) I emailed HR and my business admin again, saying this does not make sense to me and it is NOT in the contract. Next steps? Who to escalate after?

3) Should I speak to a lawyer???

Click to expand...

Ooohhh...that's dirty. Do they have any idea who they're dealing with?

[wideopenspaces]

AR wrote:

wideopenspaces wrote:

Miss Bonnie MD wrote:

wideopenspaces wrote:

This doesn’t make sense to me for several reasons. When you normally take PTO do you have to make up your salary?

If you are being paid by a disability plan, you by definition can’t work during that time so I’m not sure how it would be legal for them to have you make up that time.

And even the last 2 weeks of unpaid leave seems like your base salary just goes to zero during that time so it should again be taken care of.

I just don’t understand how they could force you to work and not pay you for it.

You are using FMLA time to cover all this, correct? I have never in my life heard of an employer making an employee make up their FMLA time. I knew maternity leave was crappy, but this is the worst I’ve ever heard.

At my institution we get 6 weeks paid parental leave, then another 6 weeks that is paid if you have enough sick and vacation time to cover it. Otherwise it is unpaid. Then after my 12 weeks I cut my FTE to 0.25 and so my salary was dropped accordingly and I was no longer eligible for benefits, including any incentive pay. But there was no talk of making up the time I was off. Just seems crazy to me.

Click to expand…

I am making these numbers up for illustration purposes:

The way our pay/incentive is structured is our base is X, and anything above 2x per quarter is paid out as bonus. So we bonus quarterly.

They are saying I need to make up the 2x not generated during my 12 weeks off to bonus again.

Click to expand…

So for example, normally your threshold is 10 RVU to get a base salary. If you produce over 20 RVU, you get paid extra. When you come back from leave, they expect you to produce 40 RVU to get beyond your base salary. Right? So you are being expected to do work for which you are not being paid. I don’t understand how this can be legal.

What would happen if you had a good quarter and you got incentive pay for producing 25 RVU and the next quarter you only produced 5 RVU for some reason. Would they make you pay back the first quarter incentive pay? Or would you be expected to produce 35 in the third quarter before getting the incentive pay again? At my job, each quarter is independent. The slate is wiped clean after each quarter, there is no cumulative tally. If you hit the threshold one quarter, great! You get extra pay. If you don’t the next, you don’t get the pay, but the deficit doesn’t carry over.

Frankly, if my employer was telling me this and a contract lawyer told me this was perfectly legal, I’d be looking for another job. This is crazy.

Click to expand…

Well bolded is not exactly true, arguably she was paid for that work in advance.

Furthermore, it would be odd if it were illegal.  What prevents the employer for just offering a contract where it takes 40 RVU to get over the same base.  It’s a worse deal, for sure.  IANAL, but for a salaried professional, I think just about any deal is legal (it’s not like we’re flirting with minimum wage violations here).

I am also not clear on whether it’s a clean slate every quarter or if deficits are carried over in perpetuity.  The former system favors the employee while the latter favors the employer.  I wouldn’t say that either is inherently unfair.  And the latter is certainly not crazy.  For example, in the case of a solo private practitioner, that is the precise reality of their situation.

Standard disclaimer (above assumes I understand everything correctly) applies.

Click to expand...

Ah, but she wasn't paid for the work in advance. Her dept is not paying her during her leave. She will get some income, but it will come from 1) short term disability payout, 2) 2 weeks of PTO. The rest is unpaid. So they are asking her to do work for which they are not paying her.

And I agree it wouldn't be an issue if she had a pre existing contract that said she must work 40 rvu before getting incentive pay. But her current contract says she must only work 20 RVU in order to get it *and it may be prorated* (meaning that if her work effort is zero, pay is zero). So what they are telling her seems illegal to me . . . like breach of contract. If she quit after her 3 months of maternity leave, would they try to come after her and say she owed them 20 rvu's before she could go?