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  • #31
    Originally posted by Max Power View Post
    Yes, seriously. Not just female surgeons specifically but any women who delay marriage/LTR in general for whatever reason. Most will have to "settle" for a guy who is older/chubby/uglier/etc when they are 35 than they probably would have at 25... it is a tradeoff if they choose to party or travel or do career in the prime dating years and find a partner after that.

    Women's prime dating years are 20s (aka busy years of school/residency for a surgeon) since their looks and fertility are peaking. For men, it tends to be mid 30s or even later since their career/provider ability is materializing yet they still have good looks/fitness. It is just the way of human attraction, partnering, and reproduction (you should know that as well as anybody). That is why Julia Roberts and Richard Gere were so good in Pretty Woman even though she was 22 and he was 40. They were both at their peaks. I don't make the rules.
    I know of so many female surgeons and non surgeon physicians who have rockstars spouses.

    And I know of housewives whose spouses suck.

    If you have daughters, I’d recommend taking a good introspective look at your biases and hope that you raise your daughters with awareness of your own person biases.

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    • #32
      Originally posted by ObgynMD View Post
      I know of so many female surgeons and non surgeon physicians who have rockstars spouses.

      And I know of housewives whose spouses suck.

      If you have daughters, I’d recommend taking a good introspective look at your biases and hope that you raise your daughters with awareness of your own person biases.
      I am not debating what you say. It may well be true. Anecdotes on the internet do not trump reality, though. It is very hard for any gender or orientation surgery resident to keep a quality partner, esp hard for a straight woman, when you are in the library and the OR for years and years and years of school and residency. The men will still be entering the peak dating years when residency's over, but the woman's peak dating/fertility is in the rear view mirror by then. That is physically limiting and not fun to realize psychologically. That is all.

      Physiology is a fickle thing. Your anecdotes of landing a "rockstar" husband later in your dating life would be like me saying there are 40+ year old guys who can still play at professional level football or basketball or baseball. Sure, there are a few of those... but everyone knows the peak years are gone and those guys were almost invariably better players in their mid and late 20s. Most women aren't Demi Moore, you know?

      ...I merely suggested that trading prime dating years for career takes its toll. If your screen name is any validity, I'm sure you see it frequently with professional women who spent their 20s in school, married at 35, now high-risk pregnancy or even IVF-seeking at 38+.It is what it is. There are pros and cons to both roads (bachelors or SAHM woman who has all kids in her 20s vs professional who delays to have a high-earning for the rest of life yet kids late or never). The thread was just about why, and I say physiological aging of choosing the delay-gratification and the high psych/body stress of residency. It is what it is. The last word is yours.

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      • #33
        Originally posted by Max Power View Post
        I am not debating what you say. It may well be true. Anecdotes on the internet do not trump reality, though. It is very hard for any gender or orientation surgery resident to keep a quality partner, esp hard for a straight woman, when you are in the library and the OR for years and years and years of school and residency. The men will still be entering the peak dating years when residency's over, but the woman's peak dating/fertility is in the rear view mirror by then. That is physically limiting and not fun to realize psychologically. That is all.

        Physiology is a fickle thing. Your anecdotes of landing a "rockstar" husband later in your dating life would be like me saying there are 40+ year old guys who can still play at professional level football or basketball or baseball. Sure, there are a few of those... but everyone knows the peak years are gone and those guys were almost invariably better players in their mid and late 20s. Most women aren't Demi Moore, you know?

        ...I merely suggested that trading prime dating years for career takes its toll. If your screen name is any validity, I'm sure you see it frequently with professional women who spent their 20s in school, married at 35, now high-risk pregnancy or even IVF-seeking at 38+.It is what it is. There are pros and cons to both roads (bachelors or SAHM woman who has all kids in her 20s vs professional who delays to have a high-earning for the rest of life yet kids late or never). The thread was just about why, and I say physiological aging of choosing the delay-gratification and the high psych/body stress of residency. It is what it is. The last word is yours.
        But the thing is you speak as if this is the truth, or as if being a working woman = having an inferior partner. How do you judge about inferiority- uglier/chubbier/older? What about maturity, supportive, kindness, employment status? What makes you the judge of what makes a superior partner?

        There is data to suggest economic empowerment and higher education may protect women from intimate partner violence. This alone, I could argue, means educated and working women have superior spouses.

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        • #34
          Error

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          • #35
            I vote for low level exposure to anesthesia gas- especially head and neck docs, bovie generated smoke, and exposure to radiation within the OR. I practiced for over 30 years and literally tens of thousands of cases minor and major. I’m certain that my kids genetics weren’t enhanced for the better

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            • #36
              Originally posted by Auric goldfinger View Post
              I vote for low level exposure to anesthesia gas
              Anesthesia gets blamed for everything

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              • #37
                Originally posted by StateOfMyHead View Post
                If I understand correctly anesthesiologists are also prone to experience several adverse events which has always made me wonder about the implications of exposure to anesthesia.
                Anything with chemicals (or drugs) has risks. I have no idea what chemical compounds I made could do me harm as an organic chemist…

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                • #38
                  i know that as a female student/resident/staff I found it hard to carve out time to relax and take care of myself. The new data on how preterm births dropped during COVID might support the idea having less work stress is a good way to reduce preterm deliveries. I had a difficult time just getting to my OB appointments. On one occasion, I had to leave a non-stress test before it was completed because I was needed on the ward. Most female docs I know have had pregnancy complications. We are often sleep deprived, dehydrated, and eating crappy food. My spouse (not ugly or old or chubby) was never available to come to appointments with me due to his own stressful medical training.

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                  • #39
                    Originally posted by goatmom View Post
                    i know that as a female student/resident/staff I found it hard to carve out time to relax and take care of myself. The new data on how preterm births dropped during COVID might support the idea having less work stress is a good way to reduce preterm deliveries. I had a difficult time just getting to my OB appointments. On one occasion, I had to leave a non-stress test before it was completed because I was needed on the ward. Most female docs I know have had pregnancy complications. We are often sleep deprived, dehydrated, and eating crappy food. My spouse (not ugly or old or chubby) was never available to come to appointments with me due to his own stressful medical training.
                    Your boss should be fired for cause yesterday for allowing this to happen.

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                    • #40
                      Originally posted by ObgynMD View Post

                      But the thing is you speak as if this is the truth, or as if being a working woman = having an inferior partner. How do you judge about inferiority- uglier/chubbier/older? What about maturity, supportive, kindness, employment status? What makes you the judge of what makes a superior partner?

                      There is data to suggest economic empowerment and higher education may protect women from intimate partner violence. This alone, I could argue, means educated and working women have superior spouses.
                      I see the positions of both Max Power and ObgynMD. Yes, women will have to make disproportionate sacrifices either in terms of family/romance or professional success as they move through the world. Furthermore, men infrequently (but sometimes) have to make these sacrifices. Some of these issues confronting women are the result of biology (i.e. reduction in fertility potential with advanced age, whether chronological or physiological), whereas others are a result of policy choices at the micro and macro levels.

                      I would to disagree with MaxPower's contention that a later romantic involvement for women in high-stress programs (residency, PhD, military, et cetera) invariably leads to a "lower quality" partner. Is there a validated measure for "partner quality"? Not that I am aware of, as there are too many variables to consider. In fact, some of those variables are unknown, and those that are known can't be quantified systematically. Someone whom I might find unattractive for whatever reason is quite attractive to someone else.

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                      • #41
                        Pathology is high risk due to formalin exposure. But most programs alter working schedules (example put pregnant resident on transfusion rotation vs grossing/autopsy) to avoid exposure during those months. along with wearing formalin fume monitors to mitigate exposure risks.

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