Spouses and Relationships

[loeffy]

I'm just curious as to what others' husbands do and the dynamics of your relationship. It seems that this topic doesn't get discussed often (female physician's husbands) but I'm curious as to others experiences of being in a demanding high-income role, a role that was traditionally the husband's. Looking at my own situation, I feel that I’m in the minority (for now), as my husband and I have taken the traditional husband/wife roles and flipped them completely.  However, talking with my female colleagues, most of their husbands are physicians, finance, business, etc.  It seems that most women have made compromises in their career choices for their husband and when we talk about kids, it seems a majority of the women docs are likely to take care of the childcare duties (either go part-time or less demanding job duties).  I know there is no right or wrong answer, every relationship is different.  However, even these days with gender equality and changes in traditional social norms, for me there is often an uncomfortable moment when people ask my husband what he does or what our relationship dynamics are like.  What's your relationship like?  What have your experiences been?  What are your plans for the future?

[conniebird]

Hi Loeffy,

I am the breadwinner income wise but my future spouse makes a pretty good income. He brings other assets (i.e. a down payment for our future home) to the table though so neither of us feel like it is "lop-sided" financially wise. I know lots of female MDs married to other MDs or other high income professions, but also know plenty that are with/married to someone who make significantly less. Obviously we do not choose our spouse solely based on their income, but I do think there needs to frank discussions on goals and how money will be handled.

I will likely handle the finances but mainly because I enjoy doing so.

It seems like having a stay at home spouse makes sense if they can't bring in more than what you'd pay a nanny/childcare + taxes etc, which in my current HCOL would be in the 100K range (so that minus childcare, minus taxes and having some leftover income). Yes that is a crazy amount but that is the reality in my HCOL.

[Sajimone]

My wife is a part time pediatrician.. one day a week.  She continues to work to maintain her skills and she highly enjoys seeing pts on a part time basis.  She also manages our rental properties.   However, her full time responsibility is being Chief Operating Officer of our household.   I work full time physician plus side consulting business.. but at home.. Im the Chief Financial Officer.   She hates dealing with numbers and the details.. I enjoy it.   We have 3 kids plus one more on the way.. school, music, sports, church, etc.   It's a BIG operation!   Each month.. we will have a business meeting (she call its date night) to discuss the various financial issues.   These roles can easily be flipped around and at the end of the day... we're a team and what matters most is the family.   Who cares what others think?   In regard to your question of what the future holds.. I jokingly tell my wife all the time that she will never have to worry about a divorce... as it is always cheap-er to keep-her!   Ultimately.. we'd like to have financial freedom at the age 50-55.   Work in progress..

[conniebird]

Agree on the team/partnership mentality. Should not be looked at as who makes more/all the money.

[Zaphod]

conniebird wrote:

Agree on the team/partnership mentality. Should not be looked at as who makes more/all the money.

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Agree. I know it sucks to have people be judgemental and they will never stop, but you get to control (somewhat) how much it bothers you. If you have a good situation that works for you and makes sense (sounds like it to me) forget them. When they pay your bills or start taking care of your needs they can have opinions, otherwise, they dont matter. Thats how I've always viewed it. Some people suck, probably always going to be that way.

Having a spouse stay at home is an immense luxury imo. It costs a lot of money to have day care, cleaning, more eating out, etc...and then you have two tired adults, less time overall with kids, more difficulty arranging vacations, etc...

[Hatton]

People are judgmental about all kinds of things.  Live your life.  I try very hard not to be judgemental and not to care what others think. My husband works about one hour from here. We see each other on weekends.  We married late so kids are not an issue.  Most of the other female OB/GYNs in my area have husbands who do not work.  Several two physician couples have divorced due to affairs that I know.

[YSH]

Wife is the one with the higher earning potential but works 0.5/ 0.75, depending on the month. She is the one that does all the hand on child care stuff.  It helps that she enjoys the hands on mothering stuff, so I think it worked out for our family.  There is truth when they say that cost of childcare can almost equate to one whole salary or at least more than half (especially if you factor in paying taxes on the income before it goes to some of the child related expenses). Wife made her own choice to work less and her explanation is that it's not just about the money.  If anyone has ever visited a mommy blog, it is constantly filled with posts about limited time/poorly paid (or no pay) maternity leave, post motherhood income discrimination, misadventures of nannies, au pairs and other child related drama. She reasons that cutting back not only allows her to be with her child more but also eliminates her having to deal with these kinds of BS.  Sometimes, sanity is priceless.

I suppose the fact that the Husband makes a decent salary helps too. We are not a dual physician team. We are also from a culture where it is frown upon for the male to be career/ income-"inferior" to the female.  Some awareness in that sentiment contributed to Wife choosing to be less monetarily advanced than Husband. We all make choices in marriage and in life.  Sometimes, they are for financial reasons, but most of the time, its because we love each other and are willing to take the hit for him/her when it is truly not much skin off our backs.

Most of our friends are aware of our financial situation but we are also very low key about our expenditures.  Very few indulgences.  Our kid has no idea we can afford things; since we chose to buy in non-high strung neighborhoods, kid goes to very diverse population public school, only do milestone birthday parties and no gifts except on certain birthdays and on occasional Christmas. Wife and Husband actually don't even buy gifts for each other.

Plan for the future is once kid(s) (who knows what the future brings) have launched, both partners plan to continue working (maybe full time, maybe part time?).  If we do it right and are lucky, our kid(s) will be off on their own by the time we are 55, so hopefully still have a good decade ahead to build wealth and live a good life.  Wish me luck.

[NutADuc]

Interesting topic. My wife is an MS4 and I work as a scientist. I will most likely never make what she will potentially make in salary and I am totally OK with that. Just like YSH, I too come from a culture where it is frowned upon for the wife to make more than the husband and it is DEFINITELY frowned upon for the husband to stay home and take care of the kids/house but unlike YSH's case, that will have no factor in deciding if my wife should cut back or not.

Now, we do not have any kids yet. Been married almost 4 years, wife is 26 so we do have some time (though we are trying right now). From what I have been told, women who are high income earners after giving birth tend to want to stay at home a bit longer. If that's what my wife will want, then I'll be OK with it. But I am also OK with staying home if it ever came to that. In my mind (and I have expressed this to her also), her career comes first. Does that mean I want to be a stay at home dad? No. But if I'm honest, my main objective in working is to max my tax deferred accounts (401(K), roth IRA). Second to that is to be able to bring something to the table.

As she prepares to send in her residency applications, we have been discussing how she would need to rank cities with the most biotech job opportunities the highest. If and or when that day comes where I am staying at home to take care of kids, I know I won't care what anyone else will think/say. I'd be secure in my decision.

[MrsIMDoc]

NutADuc wrote:

Interesting topic. My wife is an MS4 and I work as a scientist. I will most likely never make what she will potentially make in salary and I am totally OK with that. Just like YSH, I too come from a culture where it is frowned upon for the wife to make more than the husband and it is DEFINITELY frowned upon for the husband to stay home and take care of the kids/house but unlike YSH’s case, that will have no factor in deciding if my wife should cut back or not.

Now, we do not have any kids yet. Been married almost 4 years, wife is 26 so we do have some time (though we are trying right now). From what I have been told, women who are high income earners after giving birth tend to want to stay at home a bit longer. If that’s what my wife will want, then I’ll be OK with it. But I am also OK with staying home if it ever came to that. In my mind (and I have expressed this to her also), her career comes first. Does that mean I want to be a stay at home dad? No. But if I’m honest, my main objective in working is to max my tax deferred accounts (401(K), roth IRA). Second to that is to be able to bring something to the table.

As she prepares to send in her residency applications, we have been discussing how she would need to rank cities with the most biotech job opportunities the highest. If and or when that day comes where I am staying at home to take care of kids, I know I won’t care what anyone else will think/say. I’d be secure in my decision.

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I am going to go out on a limb here, so if you do not want this advice please ignore it because it is not politically correct. This is not directly related to the opening posters topic.  If you and your wife do not get pregnant in the next cycle, you should consider postponing so that she is not due to give birth at the start of residency.  This is advice that many mentors will not tell you because it is not politically correct to tell someone this. Your wife may be hearing that getting pregnant during fourth year is the best time to get pregnant, but that is only true if your delivery date is before the end of June.

For some slightly older women, waiting is not an option because of the legitimate concerns for fertility, but waiting from 26 to 27 or 28 should not be that large of difference for fertility.  Intern year is a time where immersing yourself in the learning sets you up for success in the later years.  You want to have time to develop relationships with other interns, residents and mentors to lean on during the really difficult times.  That would be made much more difficult giving birth the first few months in.

As a senior resident I did have an intern who had given birth the first month of intern year and she was emotionally distraught.  We had long days in the hospital as a requirement of work and she only had four days off in a 28 day rotation.  It was heart wrenching to watch.  As a pregnant attending physician myself now, I cannot imagine having a baby intern year.  Second or third year would have been doable, but not intern year.

Also be aware that programs are only required to honor FMLA if you have worked a year.  Programs are not required to give interns leave but obviously most do.  Seeing as it is still August of MS4 year, you have time to investigate programs with family friendly policies.  Other things to consider are that larger programs are able to absorb the loss of an intern for a few months easier than a program that only has a few residents a year. Talk to other people you know about how a pregnant intern was handled in the program.   Be aware that a pregnant internal medicine intern might be treated differently than a pregnant neurosurgery intern despite being at the same institution.  Some residencies like pediatrics and family medicine give time with baby as "newborn care credit" and count towards a rotation, so look into these policies.  Best of luck for you guys and sorry if this was unwelcome advice.

[Hatton]

I will also be politically incorrect.  If she is planning on a physically demanding residency like OB or a surgical/procedural heavy one then waiting until attendinghood makes sense.  If older than 35 I would not wait.  By waiting she will have the dollars to hire help if needed and maybe better hours.

[DarrVao777]

On the flip side, if you are doing a cushy residency like derm, there is no better time for babies. (your co-residents may hate you of course)

Our PD had to threaten to hold residents back as they were planning on a pregnancy in their pgy2 and PGY4 years

The neighboring residency program just decided that any pregnancy and they would hold the resident back an entire year to discourage this kind of behavior.

[NutADuc]

@MrsIMDoc, I'll very rarely turn down advice. Your post was insightful. It gave me a few things to think about, especially "Other things to consider are that larger programs are able to absorb the loss of an intern for a few months easier than a program that only has a few residents a year."

We are definitely aware of most of the concerns you mentioned. Its something we debate a good amount about, whether or not to have a baby during intern year. But then we decided it'd be best to have it before she starts but we also realize our window is closing (especially now that she is on an AI for September and won't see each other for a month).

Oh, she is definitely not doing a cushy residency.

[EDDOCMOM]

I am a physician (EM) and my husband is an Engineer.   We both worked during residency - had first baby in between 2nd and 3rd year. We both worked my first year out as an Attending.  When babies 2 and 3 came within 13 months we decided he should stay home.  Salary wise there was no comparison - I could make up his salary with an extra 12 hours of work.  We have a traditional Christian marriage and he is the head of the house, but I work and he takes care of the kids.  As with most working moms, I still do a lot of household duties and of course child care when I'm home.  He plans to return to work when youngest hits school.  He is working on his Master's degree while he stays home.

His staying home has been an incredible blessing to us.  Family and friends are initially surprised and then supportive of our family set-up.  My crazy schedule is so much easier now.  We sent the oldest to Pre-K (they were 3 under 3!) and the boys are home full time with dad.

I highly recommend having a stay at home spouse when the children are little - not only does it make home life nicer but I have flexibility with work and work commitments that I otherwise wouldn't have.  It wasn't right for me to be stay at home mom and this arrangement has worked out very nicely.

 

[YSH]

I would venture that most of us who are actually in the trenches now (married with young kids, one or both careers on the line) would agree that these kind of issues aren't so black and white.  Like we like to say to our kid, sometimes, its not all about you (Wife or Husband).

You do you, and if that's working out well for you guys, then keep it up.  Like Hatton1 and Zaphod has stated, people like to judge regardless.

 

 

[Dicast]

In my physician-physician marriage my wife still takes care of more of the childcare when she is home.  I take care of the finances, maintenance, yard, grocery shopping and most other random things.  We split laundry (she does a bit more) and meal prep (I do a bit more).  I'd like to think that since I have a significant income it has allowed my wife to take a longer path (triple boarded) to her career and do what she really wanted to do.