Spouses and Relationships

[bovie]

The "extra duty" should be given to a temp. There is nothing stopping programs from hiring an NP or PA to fill in for the few months of resident maternity/paternity leave.

LOL. Seriously? Nothing?

One “provider” is as good as another, eh?

[matia]

Hypothetically question:
Many discuss the cost of private schools, expensive daycare and how hard it is to find a nanny,
So nanny it is! Now, would you want provide parental leave for your nanny?
It is sobering that single female residents pay a price too.

Never heard of a group or department taking up a pool to bring in a temp when a resident goes on paternity leave?

It is actually pretty common for families to hire a second nanny/babysitter to fill in for the main nanny's maternity leave. The maternity leaves in this country are mostly unpaid, so nobody is paying twice. There is effort that goes into finding someone temporary for 3 months yes but people will do it for a worthy employee because they want that employee back.

Tim you are not in medicine. My department has done this previously or at least considered it but then the rest of the residents picked up the extra shifts for extra $$ so it wasn't needed. It's funny how that shifts the mood of those residents to not feel dumped on and instead support their colleague instead of hate on her!

[matia]

1. A few hundred extra dollars for a few months of extra duty/shifts doesn’t move the needle for me, and I presume not for many other folks. Now, if you tripled my salary for a time, then it might be enticing to grind it out. But it would not be cheap for the administration and therefor a non-starter for them.
2. What kind of child results from any single pregnancy is mostly random: I know plenty of kids from high-achieving parents who totally blow. Conversely, I know kids who came from parents who struggled (particularly immigrant parents) who are smart, hard-working (students), and have a bright future ahead. Just because a parent-to-be is a physician doesn’t mean that said progeny will be an Einstein. So the appeal to genetics here isn’t totally correct.
3. Although I am a libertarian conservative, the presence of a welfare-centric state (think Nordic countries) hasn’t resulted in anarchy, yet. Maybe one day, but not at the moment.

1. Not everybody is a WCI with millions in the bank. Many have a much lower starting point $$ to help.

2. Random extreme examples are of course possible. But last I checked genetics play a pretty important role in how a human turns out. Genetics and growing up around hard working, contributing members of society I betcha makes a very big difference in how those kids turn out!

3. Nordic countries allow for a good 1 year maternity/paternity leave paid up to a certain level. So in those countries everyone has the opportunity to reproduce and take off 1 year of leave. So you understand, the psychology is also different in those countries because women are in fact encouraged to take the time and are not "hated on" or "reprimanded" for doing so.

In this country (and especially in meficine) there is a push to make females guilty for reproducing or else they need to choose between family and career. So those said females choose to not have kids or try to have them when it's too late so they don't hurt their career. There is currently an epidemic of infertility in medicine and it's no coincidence. But yet I see patients on Medicaid coming in with multiple children and pregnant again and that is no coincidence either.
You may think it's inconsequential, I beg to disagree and I hope people wake up and stop thinking just about their own @$$. I am a moderate conservative btw!

[Tim]

“Tim you are not in medicine. My department has done this previously or at least considered it but then the rest of the residents picked up the extra shifts for extra $$ so it wasn't needed. It's funny how that shifts the mood of those residents to not feel dumped on and instead support their colleague instead of hate on her!”
Daughter had 8 years of comments about “priority requests” since paternity leave and kids needed to be considered in just about every phase of scheduling. Some voluntary swapping upon request and some not. Favors or priorities NEVER go to the single person. Why should they?
Trying to find someone for a temporary gig is difficult.

Sure you can suggest “volunteering”, the hospital nor residency will never love you back. No one is suggesting “hate on her”. It is a burden on the other residents.

[matia]

LOL. Seriously? Nothing?

One “provider” is as good as another, eh?

You are right, I exaggerated. It's being cheap that's stopping them.

Most residents mat leaves are unpaid so they save that money. ( Not to even discuss how much they already save by employing hugely underpaid residents in hospitals!!) Instead of paying the residents that fill in or hiring an NP/PA to take off the pressure.
No, any provider is not as good as a Physician but since they are being hired left and right to substitute us, I am sure they'd be "good enough" to sub-in for one of us for a couple of months under appropriate supervision.

My point is that there are options and instead of hating on the women for bearing children, you should take it up with admin!

[matia]

No one is suggesting “hate on her”. It is a burden on the other residents.

So then don't get sick either or have a sick family member or have a broken bone cause it's a "burden on the other residents". Frankly it doesn't have to be!

it's funny, my husband has taken full paternity leave each time. No hard feelings. The coworkers and manager share the burden. Its same that happens when they go on vacation. And its same that has happened when someone (male) had extended fmla for sickness and another (male) for a sick family member. It's a 2 way road and it doesn't only affect single people with the extra work. For the most part though, nobody "faults" the illnesses. But everyone remembers the pregnant lady that made them do the extra work.

[F0017S0]

So then don't get sick either or have a sick family member or have a broken bone cause it's a "burden on the other residents". Frankly it doesn't have to be!

it's funny, my husband has taken full paternity leave each time. No hard feelings. The coworkers and manager share the burden. Its same that happens when they go on vacation. And its same that has happened when someone (male) had extended fmla for sickness and another (male) for a sick family member. It's a 2 way road and it doesn't only affect single people with the extra work. For the most part though, nobody "faults" the illnesses. But everyone remembers the pregnant lady that made them do the extra work.

No one chooses to be sick, or break their arm, or whatnot, though. In a lot of cases, having a child is a choice (sometimes it's an "accident" and is well received by the parents-to-be, or it is a burden on the parents-to-be). The timing of having a child is also influenced by choice (extenuating circumstances around reproductive health not considered here).

As far as me, I'm of Bill Maher's position on children: there need to be fewer people on the planet, therefore fewer pregnancies. That is fewer pregnancies from everyone: rich and poor.

[Tim]

How many single co-residents took paternity leave?
Senseless catfight. Reminds me of a flight in on Christmas Eve at 7pm and a return flight on Christmas Day.
All so families could spend the “holidays” together. The two “singles” were left to cover. Enjoy. One took New Years and the other took Christmas.
Illness and vacations are equal, usually not for “family reasons.”
It’s just a fact, singles are treated differently.
If they need to vent, speak up. There are plenty of other options if one wishes preferences (call, vacations, holidays, weekends).

[Tim]

No one chooses to be sick, or break their arm, or whatnot, though. In a lot of cases, having a child is a choice (sometimes it's an "accident" and is well received by the parents-to-be, or it is a burden on the parents-to-be). The timing of having a child is also influenced by choice (extenuating circumstances around reproductive health not considered here).

As far as me, I'm of Bill Maher's position on children: there need to be fewer people on the planet, therefore fewer pregnancies. That is fewer pregnancies from everyone: rich and poor.

Does not mean “bad blood” between co-residents.
1st birthday parties, babysitting on Sat night so someone gets a night out, etc. It is helpful if the residents get along and try to even things out.

[Jenn]

...the USA is one of the few (maybe the only!) advanced economy with such poor to non-existent maternity/paternity leaves. And what's even more glaring to me is that nobody, not even smart people in medicine (in fact much less tolerant in medicine!!!) Can zoom out and think what will happen to the future of this country if you continue to artificially limit the progeny of smart, high achieving, hard working women. Has anyone thought about the gene pool in the future if only those who stay at home and collect a welfare check continue to multiply? What about having a young work force so we can continue to be a strong economy?

A friend vents about this- her daughter absorbed that message and has 3 kids despite her psychology counseling work/ degree- but her DIL's clock is ticking... Idiocracy anyone?

[F0017S0]

A friend vents about this- her daughter absorbed that message and has 3 kids despite her psychology counseling work/ degree- but her DIL's clock is ticking... Idiocracy anyone?

I think we’re already at Idiocracy. Go into most any school (early childhood through college) and it’ll be clear as to where we are headed…

One argument could be that “smarter”/“more accomplished” folks reproduce more as matia suggested. Or we just as a species reproduce less. The latter sounds better…

[bovie]

No, any provider is not as good as a Physician but since they are being hired left and right to substitute us, I am sure they'd be "good enough" to sub-in for one of us for a couple of months under appropriate supervision.

Maybe in your field, but this would never work in surgery. Or most others.

[StarTrekDoc]

Maybe in your field, but this would never work in surgery. Or most others.

Sure it would (from the administrators POV) -- until it doesn't. Same for Primary Care. In surgical fields it timeline is just more compressed and M+M more pronounced when things go sideways.

[matia]

No one chooses to be sick, or break their arm, or whatnot, though. In a lot of cases, having a child is a choice (sometimes it's an "accident" and is well received by the parents-to-be, or it is a burden on the parents-to-be).

You may think it's a choice. To others it isn't. People who want to be parents and that influences their well being. And it gets very stressful as the reproductive clock starts ro run out. Do you know someone who has gone through infertility treatments? It's so so hard.
And regarding choice, when does that argument end? The lung cancer patient had a choice to not smoke, the person who went skiing and broke their leg did too, the colleague who had a stroke or MI but was obese, not exercisi g etc etc ... Why should any of us as a society pay for the poir choices of others??

Tim, just because that was your daughter's experience it doesn't mean its like that everywhere. In fact when we had sick people out, everyone shared the extra work single/married/with kids. I had kids and yet was assigned to work during the Christmas/NY holidays while all my single friends were off traveling. Your daughters program sounds like a more family friendly one. I come from a punitive program. So your comments and those of others here remind me of how I was treated for choosing to have children because God forbid anyone is inconvenienced by "women issues". It's misogyny no matter how you it's disguised!

[Anne]

You may think it's a choice. To others it isn't. People who want to be parents and that influences their well being. And it gets very stressful as the reproductive clock starts ro run out. Do you know someone who has gone through infertility treatments? It's so so hard.
And regarding choice, when does that argument end? The lung cancer patient had a choice to not smoke, the person who went skiing and broke their leg did too, the colleague who had a stroke or MI but was obese, not exercisi g etc etc ... Why should any of us as a society pay for the poir choices of others??

Tim, just because that was your daughter's experience it doesn't mean its like that everywhere. In fact when we had sick people out, everyone shared the extra work single/married/with kids. I had kids and yet was assigned to work during the Christmas/NY holidays while all my single friends were off traveling. Your daughters program sounds like a more family friendly one. I come from a punitive program. So your comments and those of others here remind me of how I was treated for choosing to have children because God forbid anyone is inconvenienced by "women issues". It's misogyny no matter how you it's disguised!

It doesn’t sound like Tim’s daughter’s program was “family friendly” if she was lower on the totem pole to spend Christmas with her family just because she didn’t have children.