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Robbed last night/Becoming a target

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  • #61
    Pools sure as ************************ don't seem to deter burglars.  Quite the opposite it seems.

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    • #62




      All dogs are very vulnerable to pepper spray, and unless they are trained not accept food from strangers, they are easily drugged or poisoned with some ground beef.
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      Dogs are a huge deterrent, and one more obstacle for someone to get through before getting to your family, thus giving you more time to get your weapon of choice if needed.

       

       

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      • #63
        I’d have to go back and re read but I think I did see someone mention unsecured guns.

        My kids get swim lessons and I don’t have a swimming pool.  But the obvious counter to these straw man arguments — guns have a single purpose: injure/kill. They are meant only for that purpose. Swimming pools have other purposes. But if someone doesn’t have a fence for their pool and a lot of vigilance than they also are taking a big chance.

         
        An alt-brown look at medicine, money, faith, & family
        www.RogueDadMD.com

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        • #64
          This is never a debate on the right to own guns. It is more about whether, in a home with children, a gun is likely to help deter a robbery versus causing injury / death to the family members. If I did not have a child in the house, I might even consider having a gun.

          But 13 year olds tend to learn independence and one thing they do is try out new things. We told out daughter to never get into online chats with strangers but what we did not know is that she played online games and during one such game, was chatting with a boy from Denmark. So even if I ask her to not touch any gun in the house, I am not 100% certain it will be obeyed all the time. It maybe 99.99% true, but I can't take a chance with that 0.01%.

          If all the guns are secured in a house with children and locked in gun safes, how are you going to deter the home invasion - when having a gun ready to access immediately, and shoot at, is not possible. That might not be the best time to go searching for a gun in the safe.

          My personal solution has been to live in safe neighborhoods, with neighbors who keep an eye out for each other and accept that even with the best of precautions there will be home burglaries. I try to not have expensive things in the house and have enough money in the bank or investments and insurance to replace things that are lost.

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          • #65





            If any of you with guns + kids in the home are relying on your kids to “know better” and not touch guns that you leave unsecured, you’re delusional. 
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            I don’t see where anyone here suggested having unsecured guns in a home with children.

            All of the cases of accidental shootings involving children that I am aware of occurred with guns that were not kept locked up safely.  They were in closets, on shelves, under a mattress or pillow.

            I don’t know how often guns prevent violence, but I do know that more children die in home swimming pool accidents than in accidental shootings each year.  Yet for some reason some people prefer to campaign against guns at home rather than swimming pools.
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            I'd prefer to campaign against more Nicolas Cage movies:

            http://tylervigen.com/view_correlation?id=359

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            • #66




              If all the guns are secured in a house with children and locked in gun safes, how are you going to deter the home invasion – when having a gun ready to access immediately, and shoot at, is not possible. That might not be the best time to go searching for a gun in the safe.
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              The argument is not whether having guns locked in a safe will allow for defensive firearm use in all instances, but whether it gives the gun owner a better chance in some violent encounters. It is not an all or nothing proposition.  Just as we don't discount medical interventions that have less than a 100% cure rate (all of them), why would we do otherwise on this issue? You say it is not possible to retrieve and shoot an invader when the gun is stored in a safe. Are you disputing the veracity of thousands upon thousands of documented instances in local media of a gun owner doing precisely that?

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              • #67


                Are you disputing the veracity of thousands upon thousands of documented instances in local media of a gun owner doing precisely that?
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                I don't know if he is or not, but are you disputing the veracity of the  thousands upon thousands of documented cases where responsible gun owners had a bad outcome. Or disputing the evidence that shows having a gun, regardless of storage method, is worse than not having a gun.

                Here is one relevant study: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15522849

                Among their conclusions are the following: "Results show that regardless of storage practice, type of gun, or number of firearms in the home, having a gun in the home was associated with an increased risk of firearm homicide and firearm suicide in the home."

                Now I'm sure you can come up with some reason why this and the many other similar studies out there don't apply to you and that you are going to be a safer with a gun than without.  People are very adept at rationalizing things they want to do that are not evidence-based.  But in doing so, you're basically doing what you're accusing Kamban of doing.

                 

                 

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                • #68




                  Whoa, where do all of you live that this is an issue?  Heck, here locking your door is optional.
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                  That's also the world I live in. Serious crime around here consists of a couple of teens smoking joints in the schoolyard after dark.

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                  • #69







                    Whoa, where do all of you live that this is an issue?  Heck, here locking your door is optional.
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                    That’s also the world I live in. Serious crime around here consists of a couple of teens smoking joints in the schoolyard after dark.
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                    I'm in a similar situation myself and I would have assumed most posting here would be.  But apparently not.

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                    • #70
                      There was a crime spree in my neighborhood a few summers ago.  While lax about outdoor lighting before, I had outdoor fixtures installed that provide dusk to dawn lightning over all the entrances to my house.  I haven't really noticed an increase in my electric bill.

                       

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                      • #71


                        Among their conclusions are the following: “Results show that regardless of storage practice, type of gun, or number of firearms in the home, having a gun in the home was associated with an increased risk of firearm homicide and firearm suicide in the home.”
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                        Does having a gun in the home increase the risk of firearm suicide?  Of course.  You can't kill yourself with a gun unless you have access to one. But you can still kill yourself using another method.

                        Ditto for firearm homicide.  If you don't have a gun at home, you can't commit homicide with a gun, but you can kill your spouse using other methods.  So of course the risk goes up.  But that statistic doesn't address your overall risk.  To be meaningful, it should include the overall risk of assault in the home.  In my opinion, that statistic was published with the intent to mislead, perhaps unintentionally.

                        I don't doubt that there are serious increased risks and responsibilities associated with owning a gun, as with owning a car.  Accidents can happen to anyone.  Before backup cameras, people would not uncommonly run over their own kids while backing up.  All injuries to kids are tragic.  But some people are at higher risk of accidents than others.  I took care of  a 5 year old whose parents gave him a large hunting knife for his birthday.  He immediately ( not  unexpectedly, at least to me )  proceeded to cut the nerves and tendons in all 4 fingers.  You can't fix stupid.  And firearm accidents due to stupidity can happen to anyone;  the head of our local police SWAT team shot and killed a fellow officer during a training accident. The chief was playing the bad guy holding a fellow officer hostage.    He made about 5 fundamental errors in basic firearm handling that would have gotten a beginner kicked off the range.  You can't fix stupid.  But the odds in your favor go up if you follow the rules and take reasonable precautions.

                         

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                        • #72
                          Agree with AlexxT here. That study also doesn't account for the environment. So if I live in a bad area I'm going to be more likely to own a gun and will also have a greater chance of being in an altercation, regardless of the storage method. They also relied on family/acquaintence reporting on the person to obtain facts such as how many guns they owned and how they stored them - even for people who lived alone. It also doesn't answer the fundamental question of accidental deaths of kids depending on the storage method.

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                          • #73




                            Whoa, where do all of you live that this is an issue?  Heck, here locking your door is optional.
                            Click to expand...


                            I live in a cul-de-sac. My neighbor across me is a retired CIA / spy of some sort. He is now single and works all day on his driveway / garage on some wood working project or metal project or something similar. Keeps his music on while doing it. The day starts with him gunning his Harley Davidson at 7 AM every day, going on a short bike ride.

                            I was initially annoyed by his motorcycling at early hours, semi loud music and odd hours of working in the garage till I realized he was my security system, German Shepard and gun toting guard all rolled into one. From that point on, I am eternally grateful for his odd lifestyle and that I can leave home on vacation knowing that he will keep it safe.

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                            • #74
                              I'd push back on this a little. How cunning do you think the average criminal is with break-ins and scouting out neighborhoods? Do you think they do significant investigative work to know that your neighbor is a former CIA operative? And is there proof that he has set up his situation to protect your family? I would not rely on others to protect my family. And I wouldn't give criminals so much credit to think they undergo anything more than the following thought process: "We need money for X. Y neighborhood has a bunch of rich folks who we can likely push around and take things from with high rewards. Let's drive around at night and see which one looks most vulnerable and see what we can snatch." If they're smarter than that, great - your basic deterrent mechanisms and maybe your neighbor's deterrent mechanisms will make other places more attractive. But if they're dumber than that be prepared for potential confrontation.

                              This whole convo reminds me of the scene in American Sniper, taken from the book On Combat, about sheep, wolves, and sheep dogs. Don't be a sheep.

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                              • #75


                                Do you think they do significant investigative work to know that your neighbor is a former CIA operative?
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                                I think he just meant that this guy is out there every day, all day,and making some noise so criminals scouting the neighborhood will notice him due to the music playing, and be deterred by his presence there.

                                But I agree he won't me that much deterrence for criminals scouting at night.

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