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How to deal with working for morons?

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  • #16







    A different job really seems the only real solution . Of course, as the famous saying goes, “Better the moron that you know than the moron you don’t.” ????
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    Never heard this before but seems very wise. Very good point.
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    Well, it’s actually devil, not moron. Does that sound more familiar? A bit of creative license. Ha ha.

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    • #17
      Right now I’m dealing with several dissatisfied docs. And professionally (meaning in therapy), I have dealt with several serially dissatisfied physicians.

      The question you have to ask yourself is whether the environment is dissatisfying or you are easily dissatisfied. I have worked with both kinds of docs. And in fact two right now, one of each type. The first one has quit twice in four years; and in my opinion is likely to be dissatisfied no matter where he works, until he is his own boss. The second has been a long tenured employee who is always pleasant and flexible and a team player, yet a new development has caused his dissatisfaction. This doctor brought the issue to my attention and is actively working with me to solve the problem.

      Guess which doc I’m more interested in helping? Guess which one admin writ large wants to help? Which doc is the hospital more willing to bend over backward to help, to sustain, to please, and ultimately to re-engage?

      Hint: not the one who calls his bosses morons.

      At the same time obviously there are bad situations and you have to recognize them and move on.

      Good luck.

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      • #18
        In my experience people don't always start off as Morons. Some of them may have been very good clinicians in the past. When your life changes to meetings and spreadsheets they no longer think like a clinician. It may be good for you to climb the ladder one day, but without continuing to do patient care it is inevitable for perception to change. I speak from personal experience.

        Typically changing jobs (unless it is so bad your license or patient safety are in jeopardy) may make one thing better but worsen something else. I agree with whoever mentioned the Serenity prayer above. It wasn't until about by 7/8 year that I realized I had to stay calm and some stuff was just how it was going to be. Good Luck.

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        • #19
          I understand the OP's sentiments.  I've had times where I'm not on call or back-up call yet I've had to go in and help with something because both the resident and attending did not know how to do an intraoperative consult frozen section.  I'm pretty bad about jumping to the negative emotions about the situation, but I tried to focus on more training for the resident.  As the for attending aspect of it, I was happy it was a certain attending who willfully acknowledged that she should have known how to perform a frozen section.  I tried to mention that all attendings (& residents) should know how to handle all aspects of our job, and a halfway decent lawyer would go to town had this situation gone bad.  It just fell on deaf ears.

          I'm still learning to take things for how they are.  You can still accept a situation for how it is, and as difficult as it may be, staying outwardly positive may slowly help you get more people to push for change.

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          • #20




            In my experience people don’t always start off as Morons. Some of them may have been very good clinicians in the past. When your life changes to meetings and spreadsheets they no longer think like a clinician. It may be good for you to climb the ladder one day, but without continuing to do patient care it is inevitable for perception to change....
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            Agree. If you can’t beat ‘em, join ‘em!

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            • #21


              Anyone have a way to cope?
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              Meditation

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              • #22
                If you don’t respect them leave with adequate notice. Lack of social skills can land you in a malpractice situation.  Cross coverage with them can also end up there if they are not managing cases well. Pride in your work and the group practice is very important to avoid burn out

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                • #23




                  Right now I’m dealing with several dissatisfied docs. And professionally (meaning in therapy), I have dealt with several serially dissatisfied physicians.

                  The question you have to ask yourself is whether the environment is dissatisfying or you are easily dissatisfied. I have worked with both kinds of docs. And in fact two right now, one of each type. The first one has quit twice in four years; and in my opinion is likely to be dissatisfied no matter where he works, until he is his own boss. The second has been a long tenured employee who is always pleasant and flexible and a team player, yet a new development has caused his dissatisfaction. This doctor brought the issue to my attention and is actively working with me to solve the problem.

                  Guess which doc I’m more interested in helping? Guess which one admin writ large wants to help? Which doc is the hospital more willing to bend over backward to help, to sustain, to please, and ultimately to re-engage?

                  Hint: not the one who calls his bosses morons.

                  At the same time obviously there are bad situations and you have to recognize them and move on.

                  Good luck.
                  Click to expand...


                  I could also say that the doc that is willing to [inappropriate comment removed] is also more likely to keep [inappropriate comment removed] knowing he/she doesn't have the will to quit. Why would anyone in leadership promote them knowing they can abuse them forever?

                  Why do you think the long-tenured employee is still that? Why hasn't the hospital promoted that person if they are so great?

                   

                  And assuming that the other person will never be satisfied until they are their own boss is probably a given for most of us. Why did you become a physician instead of a nurse, NP, or PA? You wanted the autonomy and to be the top of the food chain.

                   

                  [Moderator note: if you shouldn't say it in WCI's house around his kids, then don't say it here, see forum policy #1 here ]

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                  • #24




                    In my experience people don’t always start off as Morons. Some of them may have been very good clinicians in the past. When your life changes to meetings and spreadsheets they no longer think like a clinician. It may be good for you to climb the ladder one day, but without continuing to do patient care it is inevitable for perception to change. I speak from personal experience.

                    Typically changing jobs (unless it is so bad your license or patient safety are in jeopardy) may make one thing better but worsen something else. I agree with whoever mentioned the Serenity prayer above. It wasn’t until about by 7/8 year that I realized I had to stay calm and some stuff was just how it was going to be. Good Luck.
                    Click to expand...


                    Isn't that called giving up?

                    Comment


                    • #25




                      I understand the OP’s sentiments.  I’ve had times where I’m not on call or back-up call yet I’ve had to go in and help with something because both the resident and attending did not know how to do an intraoperative consult frozen section.  I’m pretty bad about jumping to the negative emotions about the situation, but I tried to focus on more training for the resident.  As the for attending aspect of it, I was happy it was a certain attending who willfully acknowledged that she should have known how to perform a frozen section.  I tried to mention that all attendings (& residents) should know how to handle all aspects of our job, and a halfway decent lawyer would go to town had this situation gone bad.  It just fell on deaf ears.

                      I’m still learning to take things for how they are.  You can still accept a situation for how it is, and as difficult as it may be, staying outwardly positive may slowly help you get more people to push for change.
                      Click to expand...


                      I think we are similar-minded. But the problem is, if things did go south, now its your problem too and now you're getting sued as well. If I could practice independently of others that's a different story. But when group policies detrimentally affect what I deem to be good medicine they've now made it a problem for me. Not to mention ethics and responsibility to the patient. Would you want your loved one in the OR with docs that can't do everything that is required by their job?

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                      • #26




                        If you don’t respect them leave with adequate notice. Lack of social skills can land you in a malpractice situation.  Cross coverage with them can also end up there if they are not managing cases well. Pride in your work and the group practice is very important to avoid burn out
                        Click to expand...


                        Could not agree more.

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          I, myself, question how certain people have risen to the rank of leader while others haven't. I suspect a similar sentiment is shared in all other fields as well. I think, in general, getting those leadership positions requires a combination of luck, timing, and a unique skill set that is often difficult to articulate and under-appreciated. Furthermore, networking and 'playing the game' requires significant energy, and is not necessarily as easy as it looks from the outside.

                          Comment


                          • #28







                            In my experience people don’t always start off as Morons. Some of them may have been very good clinicians in the past. When your life changes to meetings and spreadsheets they no longer think like a clinician. It may be good for you to climb the ladder one day, but without continuing to do patient care it is inevitable for perception to change. I speak from personal experience.

                            Typically changing jobs (unless it is so bad your license or patient safety are in jeopardy) may make one thing better but worsen something else. I agree with whoever mentioned the Serenity prayer above. It wasn’t until about by 7/8 year that I realized I had to stay calm and some stuff was just how it was going to be. Good Luck.
                            Click to expand…


                            Isn’t that called giving up?
                            Click to expand...


                            Its more like pick your battles. Me personally I have given up. I've fought for about 7 years, now i focus only on the issues that are most important, I am soooo much happier and less stressed. I do my job, care for patients, get payed well and thoroughly enjoy my time off. Its easier said than done. Like I said it was a long process for me to get here.

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                            • #29




                              I, myself, question how certain people have risen to the rank of leader while others haven’t. I suspect a similar sentiment is shared in all other fields as well. I think, in general, getting those leadership positions requires a combination of luck, timing, and a unique skill set that is often difficult to articulate and under-appreciated. Furthermore, networking and ‘playing the game’ requires significant energy, and is not necessarily as easy as it looks from the outside.
                              Click to expand...


                              Sometimes it feels the "leaders" are the only ones left to fill the roles and have been around while people that are qualified have looked at the pros/cons and passed.

                              And as you mention, often reasonable people simply dont want to 'play the game' while some do, and they fall into it naturally.

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                              • #30
                                Most of us didn't go to medical school to be administrators.  On top of that, the pay sucks and you can make more seeing patients during that time.  You also get about 100 complaints for every "atta boy!"  Tilting at windmills for $125 an hour is not my idea of an enjoyable way to spend my extra time.

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