"Political" Discussions

[Antares]

MPMD wrote:

Well this has been a fairly interesting exercise. I’m going to type out one more post and then never post again about politics on this forum again or reply to this thread.

1. First of all, I am genuinely sorry and apologize if anything I have posted or discussed has materially altered other reader’s experience of these fora.

2. Others have correctly pointed out that I shouldn’t have “dragged” another forum member into this and they are correct about that. We don’t know each other and I don’t really know much about his politics other than what has played out on a very limited # of threads. I honestly put that on there a bit tongue-in-cheek and have been surprised by how this thread has played out. Apologies specifically to Zaphod.

3. Honestly I still find it a little bit hard to believe that these 4-5 threads over the last month have poisoned the well so much but I will retract prior statements and take people at their word. I still suspect that this is because of specific left-right dynamics rather than a general distaste for anything political, but I feel fairly bad if it had truly affected traffic to the forums. I think this a on the whole a right-of-center community and I realize I am probably out of that mainstream.

4. I don’t think it’s helpful for posters (as some have done on this thread) to act like I need some sort of rehabilitation or careful examination of my beliefs or sources. Unlike the vast majority of even fairly regular posters here I am not anonymous and have never really tried to be. You can surf over to my twitter or any of my guest posts and learn whatever you want. We are in a crazy, divisive, and dangerous time. You’ll never get me to pretend otherwise. I have never found virtue in being silent in the face of horrible behavior. This forum was not the venue for that though and I do realize that.

5. I genuinely remain totally mystified as to how to have a productive conservative about specific partisan legislation while pretending like it has appeared out of a vacuum. But I acknowledge that others are seeing this as churlishness rather than genuine confusion and I won’t participate in further discussions of that kind.

6. I repeat my apology, and while no place is worse than the internet for tone, I mean it sincerely.

 

MJP, MD

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I for one am sorry to hear nothing more from you here about politics. Your posts are intelligent. You’ve made me feel less of an anomaly.

[wideopenspaces]

FIREshrink wrote:

If these stats can be believed, we can guess some posters’ politics just by their handles:

 

https://www.nytimes.com/2016/10/07/upshot/your-surgeon-is-probably-a-republican-your-psychiatrist-probably-a-democrat.html

 

In my anecdotal experience, the data is correct, but not for the reasons claimed (income inequality). The personalities of surgeons and psychiatrists are really and truly different. And ‘personalities’ are only a half step away from ‘values.’ And I’ll just leave it at that.

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I always laugh at myself when I see that.

Psychiatrist . . . check

Democrat . . . check

:-)

 

Overall, I don't see the issue with these political discussions. I can't get riled up about potential changes to law. The current environment is just way too unpredictable. So I haven't read a lot of these threads about "what if . . . (in relation to potential tax code changes) ". I have still gotten a lot out of this forum as the vast majority of threads are not political. If folks don't want to listen to people go back and forth, then don't! Or read them while enjoying a bucket of popcorn, or wine ;-)

[FIREshrink]

If these stats can be believed, we can guess some posters’ politics just by their handles:

 

https://www.nytimes.com/2016/10/07/upshot/your-surgeon-is-probably-a-republican-your-psychiatrist-probably-a-democrat.html

 

In my anecdotal experience, the data is correct, but not for the reasons claimed (income inequality). The personalities of surgeons and psychiatrists are really and truly different. And ‘personalities’ are only a half step away from ‘values.’ And I’ll just leave it at that.

[StarTrekDoc]

@Rogue -  You know better than that!

@Craigy - Amen.

Our Democracy is all about civil discord.  The unique characteristic of USA's democracy is we tend to root for the underdog that keeps the balance of the  tyranny of the majority that's not seen in other democracies.

[Craigy]

Donnie wrote:

The issue is that I mostly use my phone to look at the site, and I can’t tell the subforum via phone very easily.

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Yeah, hard to tell the subforum unless I go out of my way to look, even on the computer. "This belongs in the lounge" type of stuff doesn't really make a difference.  I usually click on forum home at the top and read threads from there.

[Donnie]

My two cents - I would moderate it by forcing posts to stay on topic. No politics in personal finance threads. Politics allowed in broader discussions about societal impacts, deficits, or whatever it is that political people want to discuss.

In the 401k example:

If someone made a thread asking questions about the impact the tax bill would have on future 401k contributions, political responses should be moderated away.

If the person asks a political-leaning question like whether it is fair that 401k benefits are being cut or asking about broader societal / behavioral impact, political discussions should be allowed. Ad hominem attacks and really controversial stuff beyond political ideologies should be moderated away (like in the Salt Lake City thread). Political topics should be in lounge or their own subforum, maybe with a required note that it’s in the political subforum in the thread title. The issue is that I mostly use my phone to look at the site, and I can’t tell the subforum via phone very easily.

[Craigy]

It's all about tone, and being nice.

You shouldn't call people idiots, evil, etc.  Nor should you disparage the voters in general (i.e., everyone here on the forum who voted).  It's safe to say a bunch of people on here voted for both sides.  Calling them names doesn't help.

You can talk about the pros and cons, the merits, how much you don't like something or think it's fair.  But when you start name calling and disparaging people, it takes the town down from a discussion to drivel.

And then saying stuff like "Nope."  "Wrong." etc. is pretty aggressive and essentially the equivalent of calling someone stupid.

Just try to be nice.

[childay]

The White Coat Investor wrote:

But it requires extreme care to avoid slipping into a political bashfest on this most political of topics. Judging by the way the polls are going, we’re going to have to tighten up the moderation a bit to walk the balance.

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Please don't let this site turn into Sermo!

[The White Coat Investor]

I agree this should die down quite a bit after the tax reform bill is passed. These things are fairly rare. It's been a decade and it was two decades before that. People are so interested in this obviously financial topic that I've let it run and even did a podcast about it.

But it requires extreme care to avoid slipping into a political bashfest on this most political of topics. Judging by the way the polls are going, we're going to have to tighten up the moderation a bit to walk the balance.

[MPMD]

Well this has been a fairly interesting exercise. I'm going to type out one more post and then never post again about politics on this forum again or reply to this thread.

1. First of all, I am genuinely sorry and apologize if anything I have posted or discussed has materially altered other reader's experience of these fora.

2. Others have correctly pointed out that I shouldn't have "dragged" another forum member into this and they are correct about that. We don't know each other and I don't really know much about his politics other than what has played out on a very limited # of threads. I honestly put that on there a bit tongue-in-cheek and have been surprised by how this thread has played out. Apologies specifically to Zaphod.

3. Honestly I still find it a little bit hard to believe that these 4-5 threads over the last month have poisoned the well so much but I will retract prior statements and take people at their word. I still suspect that this is because of specific left-right dynamics rather than a general distaste for anything political, but I feel fairly bad if it had truly affected traffic to the forums. I think this a on the whole a right-of-center community and I realize I am probably out of that mainstream.

4. I don't think it's helpful for posters (as some have done on this thread) to act like I need some sort of rehabilitation or careful examination of my beliefs or sources. Unlike the vast majority of even fairly regular posters here I am not anonymous and have never really tried to be. You can surf over to my twitter or any of my guest posts and learn whatever you want. We are in a crazy, divisive, and dangerous time. You'll never get me to pretend otherwise. I have never found virtue in being silent in the face of horrible behavior. This forum was not the venue for that though and I do realize that.

5. I genuinely remain totally mystified as to how to have a productive conservative about specific partisan legislation while pretending like it has appeared out of a vacuum. But I acknowledge that others are seeing this as churlishness rather than genuine confusion and I won't participate in further discussions of that kind.

6. I repeat my apology, and while no place is worse than the internet for tone, I mean it sincerely.

 

MJP, MD

[TheGipper]

This political posts will die down soon.

Passions are just high now (for those that care at all) with tax reform/health care bills active. Add in a healthy dose of Trump derangement syndrome, and voila, instant argument.

Should die down in a few months.

[RogueDadMD]

So my takeaway is I should probably stop posting  :P

 

[StarTrekDoc]

I would HOPE that education folk would have cooler heads and ability to be civil.  We are docs after all and learn to 'check it at the door'.

With anything financial, there are differing points of view and how it should be handled.   Is there an intersect in politics in areas like Tax Reform?  Sure.  It doesn't mean that we can't be civil to each other like any other financial discussion on how it does or does not work --- and the how to get maximize our efficiency

Here's to hope.

[FIREshrink]

This is why bogleheads has such a strong policy. There is no grey zone that doesn't lead to bickering. I am fine with some bickering and appreciate that this place is less sterile than bogleheads. But I can also accept if the mods clamp down harder. I think it takes a lot of work for mods to police the way they do at bogleheads and wonder if that's too high an expectation for the much smaller forum here.

[Hatton]

Editorial in the WSJ.  Republicans favor $500 Canine tax credit (per dog) and Democrats favor similar credit for felines.  Why should human Moms be favored over dog moms.  See where this bickering leads.