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  • Doctors make too much money....

    If you want your WCI blood to boil read this: http://www.politico.com/agenda/story/2017/10/25/doctors-salaries-pay-disparities-000557


  • #2

    SMH @ Dean -  salaries is one small piece of the pie and more a result of FFS oriented Medicare than an artificial constraint on training restrictions for FMGs and factors that he brings in.  FMGs round out the much needed primary care, but not the higher bracket, procedurally oriented -- Fee Serviced pay stacks which he argues overpayment.  


    If we go single payor and true work hour restrictions with 40 work weeks and 6 week vacations and 6month paternity/maternity leave enforcement in other countries --- sure the pay will be more comparable.   Way too many factors to distill it down to American pay :  European/Canadian pay.     


    Edit:


    I wonder if we compare surgical case loads of physicians and prorate to pay what the comparable would be.  No doubt our elective surgery rates themselves are higher (and arguably doesn't improve long term survival rates), but QOL numbers at that level would be better.   -  I know several F+F of our northern brothers who come to USA for their TURBTs because of the lack of that elective service which like catheters over surgery.

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    • #3



      If you want your WCI blood to boil read this:


      http://www.politico.com/agenda/story/2017/10/25/doctors-salaries-pay-disparities-000557


      Click to expand...



      We could still make the 'high' pay, and reduce costs if some kind of single payer went into effect. Drs/Rns while a large part, pale in comparison to insurers/drug/device companies that are unnecessary middlemen taking far above anything doctors make.


      They wipe out my debt and basically toss malpractice I'll take a massive cut, heck yeah.

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      • #4



        SMH @ Dean –  salaries is one small piece of the pie and more a result of FFS oriented Medicare than an artificial constraint on training restrictions for FMGs and factors that he brings in.  FMGs round out the much needed primary care, but not the higher bracket, procedurally oriented — Fee Serviced pay stacks which he argues overpayment.


         


        If we go single payor and true work hour restrictions with 40 work weeks and 6 week vacations and 6month paternity/maternity leave enforcement in other countries — sure the pay will be more comparable.  


        Way too many factors to distill it down to American pay :  European/Canadian pay.   


         


        Click to expand...



        Americans are fatter and less compliant as well, and they refuse to not be over treated for everything.

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        • #5

          I just love the last line:


          "The fact that most people like their doctors will make the effort harder. Most of us like our letter carriers too, but that doesn’t mean they should make $250,000 a year."


          Comparing physicians to letter carriers...

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          • #6

            Ironic that he makes the claim that doctors "enjoy a great deal of respect in society," and rounds out his column with this gem:


            The fact that most people like their doctors will make the effort harder. Most of us like our letter carriers too, but that doesn’t mean they should make $250,000 a year.

            I mean, I like economists too, but there's no reason they should be making more than Wal-Mart greeters, right?  :roll: 


             


            Edit:  MrsIMDoc beat me to the punch, lol

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            • #7

              It's so funny. They think access is bad now, wait til they cut physician pay in half. I for one would retire.


               


               

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              • #8

                What a stupid article. Our annual healthcare spending is currently around $3.2 trillion.  The article claims we can save $100 billion if we cut physician salaries down to levels seen in other countries, saving us 3% on healthcare costs. By comparison, about $1 trillion per year, 30% of our healthcare costs are due to administration. Think of all the hidden FTE costs that we are paying for insurance executives, actuaries, "medical billings specialists"/coders, hospital execs, etc. that factors into your premiums and EOBs. Also, as was brought up above, docs here are far more productive. 

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                • #9

                  Give me back the difference in my European counterparts' education costs and mine.


                  Give me 3 years paid time off to make up for the extra hours I spent in training (I had about 25,000 hours of clinical time in my training.  My European friend in the same specialty estimates 13,000).


                  Give me their work hours.


                  Give me their benefits, time off, paternity leave.


                  Give me their malpractice environment.


                  Give me their pension.


                  Give me their reimbursement model that doesn't refuse to pay if the pulse fails to autopopulate in my note.


                  Heck, you can even give me their tax rate.


                   


                  And THEN you can also give me their pay.

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                  • #10



                    It’s so funny. They think access is bad now, wait til they cut physician pay in half. I for one would retire.


                     


                     


                    Click to expand...



                    "Dean Baker is co-director of the Center for Economic and Policy Research, a progressive think tank focused on economic policy."


                    I get the feeling (or at least, I hope) this was written as a clickbait type article. It seems entirely too poorly researched and reckless in its recommendations to be taken seriously.


                    All the more reason to push for financial independence as early as possible. I like my job and would love to do it for as long as I can. That being said, if my pay were arbitrarily cut in half, I wouldn't put up with as much nonsense as I currently do.


                    I'd work fewer hours (and I already work few hours compared to most in the house of medicine), or go into a cash-only boutique practice, or just walk away altogether. None of which is great for patients.


                     

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                    • #11

                      It seems click-baity, but I don't doubt that it's also persuasive in Washington and perhaps to voters.  It is definitely a harsh reminder to me to make hay while the sun shines.


                      Even though he does have an axe to grind with physicians, he's right that the barriers to entry are coming down one way or another.  We live in an age where the average Joe will search Kayak to save $20 on the Frontier flight with the 3-hour layover in O'Hare.  In the age of mega deductibles and greater price transparency, if you ask him how much more he would pay in cash to see a board-certified US physician over a mid-level or a foreign-trained physician, what do you think he would say?  The best we can do is alleviate the shortage with residency slots before Congress finds another way.  

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                      • #12

                        Image result for physician vs admin salary

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                        • #13
                          A few thoughts...what a ridiculous piece of garbage.

                          Good luck finding young docs willing to go through the sacrafice of years of residency and hundreds of thousands of dollars in debt and taking huge legal risks to practice knowing they will make peanuts compared to previous generations of docs.

                          I for one would quit instantly and never look back. My job would simply not be worth it. Money is the only thing keeping me in practice now. Primary care and hospitalist docs would instantly disappear IMO. I don’t know anyone willing to do this line of work for 100k a year. I have friends who work home in very pleasant non-medical fields for that kind of pay. And they didnt have to sacrifice an entire decade of their 20’s for it.

                          I too feel the need to push harder for early FI and it’s precisely this line of BS thinking that worries me. Physicians are easy targets. We let all sorts of people come into our profession and tell us what to do. It’s not hard to imagine pay cuts coming when we’re all working under giant corporations in the near future.

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                          • #14

                            Economists are certainly overpaid. Since theyve influence tax, monetary, and fiscal policies of all natures for decades, one could argue a lot of our problems are their fault. Also, theyre pretty terrible at projecting anything while insisting on a philosophy that has zero bearing to reality, spurring a whole new field to deal with how people and markets actually behave.

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                            • #15

                              You know I think economists are paid way too much!  What good do they bring to society with their dismal science.  Dean Baker needs a pay cut.  The guy does not even mention tort reform.  No one in economics gets phone calls at 3am and rolls into work.  

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