Patient recorded me

[Tangler]

Guy is not being very nice. Sounds like he is out to get you. I would tell him no.
Regardless, sounds like he is unhappy and does not like you. Probably better for all if he goes elsewhere.

[Random1]

I would say. I also had one older doc tell me, every January 1st give yourself a late Christmas present and send discharges to the 10 most troubling making patients each year. One or two demanding patients can make a whole day turn sour, life is too short

[Hank]

I would say. I also had one older doc tell me, every January 1st give yourself a late Christmas present and send discharges to the 10 most troubling making patients each year. One or two demanding patients can make a whole day turn sour, life is too short

It’s entirely possible that these aren’t terrible people, they just might not be a good fit for your office. Let’s find out if they’d be happier elsewhere.

With that taken care of, you now have more mental energy to appreciate and help your staff, colleagues, and the vast majority of patients who are nice to awesome.

[The White Coat Investor]

I guess I'm in the minority here. I try not to do anything I wouldn't be comfortable played back to me in court. Some patients/family members record so they can tell their other family members what happened or just to remember the instructions they were given. Nothing nefarious.

But if I had a clinic and I had a patient threatening to sue with or without a recording, I'd definitely fire that patient ASAP.

[abds]

I’m surprised by the responses here. I’ve only had a patient ask a few times to record me and it’s to play for family or review themselves later or whatever, and I usually agree.

Once a day I see someone that I suspect is secretly recording me, either by the way they click a couple buttons as soon as I walk in or the suspicious way their family member is holding the phone out toward the room during the encounter. It doesn’t really bother me that much. In those situations I’m extra careful to have a thorough discussion about risks/benefits but in reality I don’t really change much. And I’m quite comfortable with the conversations I have with people. Plus I often see someone and leave the room, then come back for an injection, or a splint, or to give them some paperwork, so unless someone has an uninterrupted recording of when they walked in my door to when they leave it would be virtually impossible for them to prove I didn’t tell them XYZ, as it could have been discussed at another point in the encounter that they didn’t record.

[abds]

I had a patient do this to me last year. And unfortunately I didn't respond as Lordosis recommended b/c I was so flustered. It was a very upsetting experience (the patient was deranged from the gitgo - saying I need to record you incase I need to sue you in the future).

That threat is a non-starter. I would immediately dismiss them from my care. I’m shocked you continued with the encounter.

[eyecandy]

That threat is a non-starter. I would immediately dismiss them from my care. I’m shocked you continued with the encounter.

I was shocked too. Really I froze. Tried to reason with him and of course you can't reason with these people. I've never had something like that happen before and had no idea how to respond and I obviously picked the wrong response by doing the encounter. It was an upsetting experience on many different levels but I learned a good lesson that I apparently needed to learn the hard way.

[StarTrekDoc]

General rule of thumb -- assume you're being recorded legal or not.

For those who you get the spider sense AND recorded....time to officially notify separation -- alliance broken.

[VentAlarm]

I’m surprised by the responses here. I’ve only had a patient ask a few times to record me and it’s to play for family or review themselves later or whatever, and I usually agree.

Once a day I see someone that I suspect is secretly recording me, either by the way they click a couple buttons as soon as I walk in or the suspicious way their family member is holding the phone out toward the room during the encounter. It doesn’t really bother me that much. In those situations I’m extra careful to have a thorough discussion about risks/benefits but in reality I don’t really change much. And I’m quite comfortable with the conversations I have with people. Plus I often see someone and leave the room, then come back for an injection, or a splint, or to give them some paperwork, so unless someone has an uninterrupted recording of when they walked in my door to when they leave it would be virtually impossible for them to prove I didn’t tell them XYZ, as it could have been discussed at another point in the encounter that they didn’t record.

I’ve been clearly “secretly” recorded as you describe. It bothers me greatly. Not because I’m afraid I will say or do something improper, but because I know I am taking care of someone who is a dishonest person and/or has a dishonest family. If they’re willing to try to hide their actions, they are doing it because they know it is wrong/against policy/illegal/objectionable. If they’ll do this, where will they draw the line?

Also, every time this happens, they end up being a profoundly difficult family. This isn’t a one off event for people who behave this way, it’s a set of views that leads to this behavior. It’s a family who will twist words, lie about nursing staff, threaten to sue at the first sign of any issue, etc. It always ends up with stupid meetings with hospital admin because of stupid complaints - “they’re not brushing my loved ones teeth enough” is literally a complaint I’ve fielded by one of these families because they didn’t believe when we told them that baths and other hygiene stuff is intentionally done when family is out of the room.

[VentAlarm]

I was shocked too. Really I froze. Tried to reason with him and of course you can't reason with these people. I've never had something like that happen before and had no idea how to respond and I obviously picked the wrong response by doing the encounter. It was an upsetting experience on many different levels but I learned a good lesson that I apparently needed to learn the hard way.

If you argue with a fool, it’s difficult to determine who is who.

I think it probably says a lot about your specialty that this hasn’t happened to you - or maybe it just says a lot about mine that it happens frequently.

[MPMD]

I guess I'm in the minority here. I try not to do anything I wouldn't be comfortable played back to me in court. Some patients/family members record so they can tell their other family members what happened or just to remember the instructions they were given. Nothing nefarious.

But if I had a clinic and I had a patient threatening to sue with or without a recording, I'd definitely fire that patient ASAP.

i tend to subscribe to this view as well.

i also don't think that this means that you have to act super buttoned-up at all times either, just professional and generally kind.

at this point i would say that even setting boundaries w/ difficult pts or having pts escorted off campus i'd be fine having a recording played anywhere.

i agree with you and others though, if i had long term relationships with pts this would not be a good thing. i guess i get the idea of recording the doc for clarity or later review of instructions/advice, but no in some kind of hostile way.

i am not a legal expert but i do think one party consent is bizarre. i'm sure there is some rationale but it seems nuts. i mean in some ways you'd be incentivized just to run a digital recorder in your office at all times. i do not do this btw just to be clear

[cards67]

I have no problem with patients who ask to record to help them remember later. I also talk as if I'm being recorded, some patients have a good memory or their spouse in the room takes notes. Even without a recording they can still stir up trouble. But if a patient pulled a stunt like yours, I'd find a way to drop them on the basis of eroded doctor-patient trust.

[abds]

I’ve been clearly “secretly” recorded as you describe. It bothers me greatly. Not because I’m afraid I will say or do something improper, but because I know I am taking care of someone who is a dishonest person and/or has a dishonest family.

The dishonest/difficult is my experience as well. But with the nature of my work I assume a lot of my patients are dishonest so this really doesn’t change anything. I could guess how polite and compliant and happy with their outcome (regardless of what the actual outcome is) based on their insurance and the smell of the room when I walk it to it too. All of these things are correlated.

[familydocPA]

OP is the same poster who just a few days ago was saying that they see 20 patients in 4 hours and bill all of them 4's and 5's. Other posters suggested that maybe you can't provide quality care in such a short time. It might not be a coincidence that your patient was upset.

Otherwise, I fully agree with the majority here. My state requires both parties to consent to recording which helps. I still catch people recording without permission; when I ask a simple "why" there is usually a non-nefarious explanation. I refuse to have an ongoing therapeutic relationship with any patient who suggests that a lawsuit might be in their future (as by definition the relationship is no longer therapeutic).

[childay]

i am not a legal expert but i do think one party consent is bizarre. i'm sure there is some rationale but it seems nuts. i mean in some ways you'd be incentivized just to run a digital recorder in your office at all times. i do not do this btw just to be clear

Like a dash cam for your office hmm

I did have one vet seriously ask whether VA was recording a video visit. Why would I want that lol. I think its one of those conspiracy theories on the internet