Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

UVM residents unionized

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • #46
    Originally posted by Random1 View Post
    The whole issue could be solved so residents did not need to unionize. The programs could institute a 9-5 mentality with no holiday, night or weekend work along with paid time office , and vacations of 8 weeks. Any night time work or work when no residents are available would be taken care of by the attendings and in order to compensate the residents better , all the employed physicians could be taxed 10% of their gross to pay the residents more.
    Hmm, I'm trying to think of a reason why this hasn't happened yet...

    Comment


    • #47
      Originally posted by STATscans View Post
      I will say it. I think this is a terrible idea.

      Residents are supposed to be working long hard hours. It is a rite of passage. You aren’t a full fledge physician yet. In time you will

      What are we going to do next? Pay medical students stipends for studying? Bernie strikes again.


      https://www.sevendaysvt.com/vermont/...t?oid=35346837


      Resident physicians at the University of Vermont Medical Center have voted to unionize.

      The final tally was 209 for the union and 59 against. The National Labor Relations Board held the in-person election at the Burlington hospital on Thursday. Roughly 350 doctors were eligible to vote.

      The verdict comes a month after the hospital declined to voluntarily recognize the union despite more than two-thirds of residents signing cards in favor of the effort. Several high-profile politicians have expressed support for the drive since, including Sen. Bernie Sanders (I-Vt.).
      Attitudes like this is why physicians are in current situation and government by MBAs.

      Nurses know the value of unionization and will continue to gain respect and pay while replacing physicians as midlevels.

      While we as physicians going to talk about rote of passage and working tons of hours (while the midlevel you guys hire for your own practices hasn't done any of this “passage”.

      Good for these residents.

      Comment


      • #48
        Originally posted by FreshPaint View Post

        I don't understand how physicians can be so anti physician. Nurses advocate for their own which is how NPs have improved their pay and lifestyle. You can still make residency rigorous while increasing pay to 100k+ to reflect their level of education and production. Why wouldn't you be in favor of improving resident pay and benefits other than pure sadism?
        Because medical training model is about power and treating those with less experience like trash and hazing them through various physically and mentally demanding years of training.
        Because many physicians come from wealthy families where antiunion opinion is popular.


        Comment


        • #49
          You are a piece of labor, you are replaceable, the only thing setting us apart is big salary. And all efforts are there to bring your salary down and find cheaper labor to replace you.
          The sooner you realize this the better.

          Comment


          • #50
            You are not a widget , unless you are part of a widget factory , sooner you realize this you will be better off.

            Comment


            • #51
              Originally posted by resident_1 View Post

              Because medical training model is about power and treating those with less experience like trash and hazing them through various physically and mentally demanding years of training.
              Because many physicians come from wealthy families where antiunion opinion is popular.

              Medical training model is about...wait for it...training. In-depth, rigorous training. Well known to all before entering the field.

              A patient should expect no less, and neither should a resident.

              Nobody is forcing these people to become physicians.

              Comment


              • #52
                I want to work less hours.
                I want to work better hours.
                I want to get paid more for it.
                And better benefits!

                Seriously though I am all for residents getting paid more and reasonable accommodations but it has to come from somewhere. The money needs to come from somewhere. The time needs to come from somewhere. If residency was 40-50 hours a week to get the same amount of training a 3 year residency would need to be 5 years.
                Who is going to work so the resident can have those nights and weekends off?

                Comment


                • #53
                  Originally posted by Random1 View Post
                  The whole issue could be solved so residents did not need to unionize. The programs could institute a 9-5 mentality with no holiday, night or weekend work along with paid time office , and vacations of 8 weeks. Any night time work or work when no residents are available would be taken care of by the attendings and in order to compensate the residents better , all the employed physicians could be taxed 10% of their gross to pay the residents more.
                  What would the next move be when those residents become attending and now they want to continue working 9-5 with no holidays, weekends, or nights? Would they then want to unionize the attendings? Then who would work the majority of the time since 9-5 Monday-Friday is a minority of the total hours in a week?

                  Comment


                  • #54
                    I was on call for 3 years at every 4th night, and I actually walked 5 miles to the hospital in a blizzard because no one else could make it in. I am proud of being a physician and what I do. I did not like being a resident. I missed alot of personal and family life during those times But I learned more on the nights and weekends that we were left to roam the hospital alone than any other time in my life. I contrast to my son in law who is a resident, he complains when stroke patient comes in at 4:59 pm and he has to do the admission and not the evening shift. Unionization for residents , is a complaint that they want more and want to do less. If you don't want the job , let someone else do it, no one forced you to become a doctor.

                    Comment


                    • #55
                      Some folk keep going to hours worked - resident unions have very little to do with this and driven more by national accreditation than anything a resident union would pursue. Fair compensation? Yes, that's something definitely we pursued each contract cycle.

                      Random1 - your SIL may have other issues beyond the health system having a residency union as the root cause of his work ethics. If such a complaint came through our union office on that; we'd redirect with the resident on proper counseling for the root cause and encourage engagement with their residency director -- which usually course corrected the issue.

                      Comment


                      • #56
                        I’m still not seeing how a couple thousand more per year, adjustments for inflation, housing stipends, etc mean residents no longer work hard and/or are now midlevels (lol) or whatever other comments were made.

                        as I said before. A ton of residencies are already unionized. Are residents who graduate from there worse doctors? Michigan, most (all?) the UCs, etc. are they working 9-5 there? I hadn’t heard of that!

                        Comment


                        • #57
                          The University of Washington unionized a number of years ago, and their fight was mostly around compensation given the HCOL in Seattle.

                          Here are the things they bargained:
                          • Secured three additional vacation days beginning July 1, 2020 and four weeks beginning in July 2021
                          • $600 annual increase in the housing stipend
                          • An additional $600 payment as part of the first paycheck in July representing the difference between the new housing stipend and the one paid in July 2019.
                          • Fully subsidized (free) U-Pass for all RFPU members
                          • $10 per meal when on call from previous $7.50
                          • $1250 ratification bonus to be paid in the first paycheck in July if ratified
                          • Doubling of the professional development days from 5 days to 10 days
                          • Guaranteed leave from duties, including during working hours, for health, dental, or wellness appointments
                          • Maintained 60 days for RFPU members to report grievances to RFPU and for us to file them, where UW wanted to cut this in half
                          • Bereavement leave requiring significant travel now will be eligible for two additional days of leave even if the travel is not overseas
                          • Incorporation of new Washington Paid Family and Medical Leave
                          • Vacation over holidays will no longer be double-counted with holidays or personal days
                          • 6 months+ of parental leave is now available to RFPU members
                          • Pregnant residents have the ability to opt out of overnight call and 24+ hour shifts
                          • Increased professional development funds to $400 per year and increased professional development fund rollover to $1500, strengthened rules around reimbursement for medical licenses
                          • All required research years will now result in PGY level and pay increase
                          • Programs must provide travel and lodging (or funds therefor) for any required away rotations
                          • Increased pay in PGY9 year. Previously, pay stopped rising at PGY8
                          • Parking at any clinical site after the first site (i.e. if you have to visit 2 or more clinical sites in a day) of the day will be reimbursed
                          • RPFU staff will have access to meet with and help RFPU members at UW training sites
                          • Enhanced commitments on safe ride home reimbursement
                          Where we need to keep fighting
                          • 2% raises in July 2020 and July 2021, unfortunately LESS than the average annual increase in cost of living in Seattle
                          • Exchange of bike funding and incentives in favor of fully subsidized (free) U-Pass
                          • Only $50 increase in the professional development fund, which remains among the lowest of any major GME program in the country
                          • Concessions on moonlighting which unfortunately fail to open more moonlighting opportunities for members
                          Just curious if anyone thinks these are egregious? I do not.

                          Comment


                          • #58
                            Originally posted by Lordosis View Post
                            I want to work less hours.
                            I want to work better hours.
                            I want to get paid more for it.
                            And better benefits!

                            Seriously though I am all for residents getting paid more and reasonable accommodations but it has to come from somewhere. The money needs to come from somewhere. The time needs to come from somewhere. If residency was 40-50 hours a week to get the same amount of training a 3 year residency would need to be 5 years.
                            Who is going to work so the resident can have those nights and weekends off?
                            Honestly though, and as a family medical doc like me, you know that a decent amount of family med residency is a waste of time. After delivering dozens of babies in residency, how many have you delivered in practice? How many vents have you run? How many central lines have you placed? My point is that we can eliminate hours in residency without eliminating relevant training. Is residency about training, or is it about hazing and giving the hospital and attendings cheap labor and coverage? Just because we wasted time with near useless rotations in residency doesn’t mean current trainees should keep making the same mistake.

                            Comment


                            • #59
                              Originally posted by Teiresius View Post
                              The University of Washington unionized a number of years ago, and their fight was mostly around compensation given the HCOL in Seattle.

                              Here are the things they bargained:
                              6 months+ of parental leave is now available to RFPU members
                              Pregnant residents have the ability to opt out of overnight call and 24+ hour shifts
                              I would be curious to see if there's any animosity between residents with these. Depending on the class size, having one or two pregnant residents not taking overnight call, etc. could potentially breed some resentment.

                              Comment


                              • #60
                                Originally posted by Lordosis View Post
                                I want to work less hours.
                                I want to work better hours.
                                I want to get paid more for it.
                                And better benefits!

                                Seriously though I am all for residents getting paid more and reasonable accommodations but it has to come from somewhere. The money needs to come from somewhere. The time needs to come from somewhere. If residency was 40-50 hours a week to get the same amount of training a 3 year residency would need to be 5 years.
                                Who is going to work so the resident can have those nights and weekends off?
                                I think this is actually a good start:
                                Funding:
                                Some from hospital/institution to pay for services.
                                Some from the government to subsidize hospital system because the government wants new physicians.
                                Some from insurance companies are paying for patient care. Residents actually do provide some level of care.
                                Some from physicians that actually benefit from coverage and assistance of the residents. Let's not forget, they are not at the hospital and services are provided for the money they are actually paid.
                                Costs:
                                Face it, the admin of a residency program and the time it takes to actually provide training has a cost. How much is this training actually worth? Some comes out of the institution and some comes out of the attendings. Trade offs, pluses and minuses.

                                Net resident comp in a paycheck.

                                The problem is what is the bottom line due to the resident? Face it, most stipends are less than an assistant manager at McDonald's as far as a net payment to the resident.
                                From a resident/fellow point of view:
                                Total Comp - cost of training = net paid to resident. One could argue that the tuition is being paid. You are and MD, but not yet capable of practicing medicine.
                                Each residency program picks up some benefits, licensing and professional education as well.
                                Value is added for sure, but there is a tuition bill that is also deducted. Net pay is the result.
                                That higher level training is worth more than medical school. I will let the residents decide if they want a 40 hour work week and turn 3 years cost of living into 6 years. Just a note, the academic training attendings are making less for the privilege of teaching. It is probably worth the time for programs and residents to see the whole financial picture. Not going to happen if one wants lower paychecks and one wants higher.

                                The system is designed to pay residents the living expenses and no tuition. If one wants less time working, do not expect the programs to provide free housing and more tuition. One could always go back to a gross pay method and charge tuition. That would suck. Residents would be at a disadvantage.
                                From the stipends I see, mid 60's to 90's, it does not look like too bad of a deal for residents and fellows.
                                It is debatable if the residents are getting a fair shake. Make no mistake, a union organizer has no clue how to figure it out. Vote on it and go on strike is fine. Be careful what you ask for. I do wish the residents got a bigger piece of the pie. I be the teaching attendings do also. I doubt PD's are trying to screw anyone.



                                Comment

                                Working...
                                X