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  • UVM residents unionized

    I will say it. I think this is a terrible idea.

    Residents are supposed to be working long hard hours. It is a rite of passage. You aren’t a full fledge physician yet. In time you will

    What are we going to do next? Pay medical students stipends for studying? Bernie strikes again.


    https://www.sevendaysvt.com/vermont/...t?oid=35346837


    Resident physicians at the University of Vermont Medical Center have voted to unionize.

    The final tally was 209 for the union and 59 against. The National Labor Relations Board held the in-person election at the Burlington hospital on Thursday. Roughly 350 doctors were eligible to vote.

    The verdict comes a month after the hospital declined to voluntarily recognize the union despite more than two-thirds of residents signing cards in favor of the effort. Several high-profile politicians have expressed support for the drive since, including Sen. Bernie Sanders (I-Vt.).

  • #2
    Hmm interesting..what does the union give them? Can’t be comp as that’s set by what Medicare pays the hospital. Can’t be duty hours, that’s based by agme. Free lunch? Parking?

    as a resident I was wayy to busy learning medicine to fight for these things….I think these residents have too much time on their hands

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    • #3
      But but but I want to feel safe and valued and respected as an equal part of the team at work and not have to do things that I don't agree with or work longer/harder than I think that I should while being paid at a level commensurate with my contributions!

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      • #4
        These comments almost read like April Fools.

        a ton of residencies are already unionized. Do they not work hard?

        just because Medicare sets the pay per resident doesn’t mean that the hospital can’t pay each resident more. There’s a ton of variability in resident pay and benefits all around the country already…?

        and some residencies are known to be more malignant or work you to the bone more than others. So hours can easily change too.

        I love these residents had the cojones to actually unionize instead of take it in the chin like they’re supposed to. If medicine was full of people like that we’d be in a stronger position as a profession.

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        • #5
          Originally posted by Turf Doc View Post
          just because Medicare sets the pay per resident doesn’t mean that the hospital can’t pay each resident more.
          LOL.

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          • #6
            Originally posted by bovie View Post

            LOL.
            Sorry I shouldve been more precise here. Just because each resident has x allocated to their name doesnt mean the residents salary cant increase

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            • #7
              Originally posted by STATscans View Post
              What are we going to do next? Pay medical students stipends for studying?
              this made me laugh fairly hard.

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              • #8
                give you a hint at some if their goals

                https://www.cirseiu.org/forgive-student-debt-4-all/

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by STATscans View Post
                  I will say it. I think this is a terrible idea.

                  Residents are supposed to be working long hard hours. It is a rite of passage. You aren’t a full fledge physician yet. In time you will
                  .
                  I couldn’t disagree more. I guess by this logic, unions a century ago should have never formed, since working in a factory or a coal mine for long hard hours was a rite of passage? Because I worked crazy hours for substandard pay 25 years ago during my residency, current residents should have to repeat that stupidity?

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                  • #10
                    “Resident physicians at the University of Vermont Medical Center have voted to unionize. ”

                    Note to self: Need to message this better. SDN and US News residency and hospital rankings need to really be pressured to rank U of V Home

                    “Dr. Hannah Porter, a second-year dermatology resident who was one of the leading organizers, said the union will benefit both the doctors and the people they serve. ” Not to mention, benefits for the union, “The doctors will be represented by the the Committee of Interns and Residents, a New York-based union that represents more than 20,000 residents across the U.S. The union recently posted a job listing for a new organizer in Vermont. ”
                    https://www.unionjobs.com/listing.php?id=21411
                    “The doctors will be represented by the the Committee of Interns and Residents, a New York-based union that represents more than 20,000 residents across the U.S. The unionists recently posted a job listing for a new organizer in Vermont. ” I seriously doubt Dr. Hannah Porter wants this as a career.

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                    • #11
                      Uofmichigan unionized decades ago. I was an officer for the union and negotiated one of the contracts during our time.

                      There's definitely benefits that the union brought. Living quarters, meal coverage, insurance, and in our negotiations....pension. this really was important for pgy5-7 years folk like fellows and neurosurgeons. Huge.

                      It's not just about hours which is largely dictated by the certifilying body than anything else.
                      ​​​​​

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                      • #12
                        I think its funny that the people against the unionizing I bet will soon start advocating for unions once their employers start being taken over by PE, if that hasn't already happened. I agree with HikingDO, just because you and I had long hours in the past doesn't mean the new residents should as well. Sometimes I feel as if sometimes my colleagues are only happy if the suicide rate of our profession goes up.

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                        • #13
                          Lots of things going on here. First, the NLRB has been a bit active since Biden (Sanders) took office coaxing unionization in various industries so this is no surprise. So this is just more push for unions everywhere as part of a bizarre economic world view. The trouble with unions is that economically speaking they make available labor lower and prices higher.

                          Residency is part student part work. So it’s silly to think you’re going to get a full fledged salary like a PA or NP. Though I will say that most residencies are profit centers for their departments. I believe the total median GME payment per resident was around $150k - in 2015. People tend to only talk about direct GME payments when they talk about what Medicare pays. The truth is those direct payments are dwarfed by inpatient payments, which have been growing steadily based on the IPPS outpacing inflation for decades. And yet we *need* more GME money. Just a bunch of whining from hospitals who want more money IMO.

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by HikingDO View Post

                            I couldn’t disagree more. I guess by this logic, unions a century ago should have never formed, since working in a factory or a coal mine for long hard hours was a rite of passage? Because I worked crazy hours for substandard pay 25 years ago during my residency, current residents should have to repeat that stupidity?
                            I once asked a Dept Chair why residents need to get so beaten down with long hours? Operating at a high level sleep deprived under stress was like “boot camp training” in the Marines. Performance under pressure. (Pre duty hour ACGME restrictions).
                            I (unknowingly) laughed and said, “Like stupid crap in fraternity hazing?” He handled it well. Got another bottle of wine. You see, his daughter was why I was having dinner. Luckily I wasn’t a resident.
                            Some residencies (or attendings) are more concerned about compliance than the actual impact on residents.
                            One attending read the riot act to a resident for “skimming several papers “ rather than studying them.
                            Uhh, one hour sleep, a total loss to an apartment fire and still showed up for “duty hours”.
                            The problem comes with “duty hours”.

                            ”They felt an obligation to the patient, but then often lied about their duty hours out of fear of punishment from program leadership or adverse consequences from the ACGME.

                            Conversely, some residents may adopt a “shift mentality” where one clocks in and out, switching on and off patient care with the flick of a pager button. This tendency challenges an archetypal model of physician professionalism where true commitment means seeing the case through to the end, no matter the sacrifice. And yet, shift-work does not reflect life after residency when duty-hour restrictions no longer exist.”

                            I don’t see how a union will solve this.

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                            • #15
                              They’re probably going to get nap time and snacks out of it. Also, they’ll be paying part of their salary to the union.

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