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Radonda Vaught case

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  • Radonda Vaught case

    What do you think ? About criminalization of medical errors ?

  • #2
    Bypassing 6 warnings that say you are giving a paralytic agent and ignoring them, punishment seems about right.

    Hospital is at fault also.

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    • #3
      Yes hospital is also very much at fault. It seemed like another probable example of a system being put in place that was not really ready for real world use.

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      • #4
        “Leanna Craft, a nurse educator at the neuro-ICU unit where Vaught worked, testified that it was common for nurses at that time to override the system in order to get drugs. The hospital had recently updated an electronic records system, which led to delays in retrieving medications from the automatic drug dispensing cabinets. There was also no scanner in the imaging area for Vaught to scan the medication against the patient's ID bracelet.“

        ”Hospital is at fault also.” Probably so. I doubt anyone else in the hospital will be charged. Vanderbilt has some very good attorneys. Yeah, Vandy was negligent too it seems. Based only on the story.

        ”Criminally neglent homicide was a lesser charge included under the original charge.”

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        • #5
          There have to be lines even in medicine that define adequate practice. It seems reasonable to me that far exceeding that line might lead to criminal liability. That’s true with pilots, police officers, etc. I have no problem with that extending to nurses and doctors. Dr Death needed to be stopped. I don’t know a lot about the specifics here but vec and versed are wildly different.

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          • #6
            My Specific concern is : Would it set a precedent for trying other malpractice cases similarly or at least attempt to .

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            • #7
              Originally posted by uptoolate View Post
              Yes hospital is also very much at fault. It seemed like another probable example of a system being put in place that was not really ready for real world use.
              only yesterday , I was reading about another case where ED provider was provided millions for dollar for termination as he was raising concerns about pt safety .

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              • #8
                I think the precedent has already been set. See https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christopher_Duntsch etc

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by PedsCCM View Post
                  I think the precedent has already been set. See https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christopher_Duntsch etc
                  I listened to podcast about him . The whole thing was very strange , to say the least .

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                  • #10
                    I guess I don't see the negligence rising to criminality. What's the point of charging her? Certainly she'll never be a nurse again. Yes, it was obviously gross negligence, but there seemed to be no intent. I'm not sure this is a good precedent.

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                    • #11
                      Given her education, probably a 4 to 6 year degree in nursing, she should have known not to give vecuronium to a lucid patient going for an MRI.

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by jhwkr542 View Post
                        I guess I don't see the negligence rising to criminality. What's the point of charging her? Certainly she'll never be a nurse again. Yes, it was obviously gross negligence, but there seemed to be no intent. I'm not sure this is a good precedent.
                        Not an attorney:
                        Negligent Homicide is a criminal act.
                        Not an accident or mistake.
                        Was she negligent and did it cause death?
                        Not sure how rising comes into play here. Intent is not a factor of negligence.
                        Just saying.

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Tim View Post

                          Not an attorney:
                          Negligent Homicide is a criminal act.
                          Not an accident or mistake.
                          Was she negligent and did it cause death?
                          Not sure how rising comes into play here. Intent is not a factor of negligence.
                          Just saying.
                          Negligence implies no intent, otherwise it's just homicide. It really comes down to if the negligence is so bad that a reasonable person wouldn't have done the act that caused harm. But isn't this all medical malpractice? Med mal is just one giant spectrum from "yeah, that's a tough case, I could see how that was missed" to "what were they thinking?" Part of tort cases is simply proving there was negligence and the provider acted below the standard of care. So at what point is it negligent homicide when the patient dies? Because if the patient dies from the medical negligence, you could make the case that all of those are negligent homicides.

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by jhwkr542 View Post

                            Negligence implies no intent, otherwise it's just homicide. It really comes down to if the negligence is so bad that a reasonable person wouldn't have done the act that caused harm. But isn't this all medical malpractice? Med mal is just one giant spectrum from "yeah, that's a tough case, I could see how that was missed" to "what were they thinking?" Part of tort cases is simply proving there was negligence and the provider acted below the standard of care. So at what point is it negligent homicide when the patient dies? Because if the patient dies from the medical negligence, you could make the case that all of those are negligent homicides.
                            I was ready to type the same . It is a slippery slope . I am glad nurses are speaking about it . If this had happened to a physician , I doubt our colleagues would even speak in support .

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by jhwkr542 View Post

                              Negligence implies no intent, otherwise it's just homicide. It really comes down to if the negligence is so bad that a reasonable person wouldn't have done the act that caused harm. But isn't this all medical malpractice? Med mal is just one giant spectrum from "yeah, that's a tough case, I could see how that was missed" to "what were they thinking?" Part of tort cases is simply proving there was negligence and the provider acted below the standard of care. So at what point is it negligent homicide when the patient dies? Because if the patient dies from the medical negligence, you could make the case that all of those are negligent homicides.
                              Criminal negligence refers to conduct in which a person ignores a known or obvious risk, or disregards the life and safety of others. Federal and state courts describe this behavior as a form of recklessness, where the person acts significantly different than an ordinary person under similar circumstances.”
                              Negligence:
                              Loading a gun and leaving in in reach of a child.
                              There is no degree of intent. Reading a label would be a normal person. Seeing a color coded red cap, would be a normal person. Let alone a nurse.
                              Homicide:
                              Homicide is when one human being causes the death of another
                              Could be justified, could be accidental, could be criminal. Intentional plays a role if homicide is criminal,
                              March 27, 2019 — In court records, prosecutors reveal far more details about Vaught’s case. Investigators allege that Vaught made 10 separate errors when giving the wrong medication to Murphey, including overlooking multiple warning signs that she had the wrong medication. Court records state that Vaught would have had to look directly at a warning saying “WARNING: PARALYZING AGENT” before injecting the drug.”

                              https://www.tennessean.com/story/new...or/4826562002/
                              If this timeline and facts are true, Vanderbilt, the state regulators are pieces of crap. The system failed except for CMS. Everything else stinks. Intentionally. A complete failure, intentionally and violating laws. Coverup. That would be the only conclusion. And the nurse was scapegoated. She was criminally negligent but told the truth. No one else did until caught. A ton of ethics questionable conduct. A lot of people should lose their jobs. But that won’t happen.
                              If the article is accurate. Big assumption.

                              This is why malpractice is the tool used. A lack of honesty and compliance within much of the healthcare system in what I can only assume are isolated cases.

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