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  • #16
    Originally posted by RocDoc View Post
    I’m old and trained 30 years ago. One poor resident friend worked out her 28 hour shift while she had abdominal pain. The next day at noon, after sign out, she walked down to the ER and was admitted with appendicitis. We were tough ladies!
    Hope you’re not saying that like it’s a good thing. Doctors with surgically urgent cases should be treated…urgently.

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    • #17
      Originally posted by Panscan View Post

      Hope you’re not saying that like it’s a good thing. Doctors with surgically urgent cases should be treated…urgently.
      i agree entirely.

      all of us have worked sick.

      but at the end of the day that's a bug in medicine, not a feature.

      while the OP story is inappropriate on the part of the resident, there are a large group of attendings in academics who feel that they should never have to see a patient primarily again, write a note, or put in orders. the amount of stress and pain that could be alleviated if more people were willing to just practice medicine a bit would be enormous. i dealt with a situation a few years back where one of my residents had to step out of a micu call for 2.5 hours in the middle of the day to do a required residency activity (this was a one off). the micu service had absolutely no answers on how to cover this. fellow hold pager? can't do it. attending hold pager? don't even think about it. their only option was that we had to find another EM resident on one of their days off who would come to the unit, get sign out on 15 icu pts they had never met, and cover them for 2.5 hours. and that is what happened.

      again, this was for 2.5 hours from noon to 2:30. the blank stares we got when we asked if the fellow could cross cover their own patients they had just rounded on.....

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      • #18
        Many noble and important stories about our training and what the medical training system outs us through.

        But with midlevels being embraced by medical corporations do you think putting yourself through this now worth it? Do you think your NP or CRNA worked in such conditions during their training? Likely not. Nurses would rightly strike in such conditions. This resident represents medicine of today. A system where residents now standup for their quality of life during training. It is a job, a corporate medicine job.
        Last edited by resident_1; 03-14-2022, 05:52 AM.

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        • #19
          Originally posted by Craigslist View Post
          When i was a single guy in residency, I hated everyone with kids and fiances because of the BS people like OPs post would do.
          Using kids, significant others/partners, “extracurricular enrichment classes”, et cetera as an excuse is pretty lame; one chooses to go into medicine and undergo the training, so there is bound to be missed recitals, ball games, dinner dates, and so forth. It kind of comes with the territory that if you can’t secure your own coverage for duty times you agreed to, well, you’re the duty officer in that case.

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          • #20
            That resident sounds like a future physician administrator. We had a department chair who would leave his shifts early to go to his kids dance practices and violin recitals and tell the answering service to have the doc on call cover the pager. They are the kind administration loves to promote in line with the Peter Principle.

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            • #21
              When I was a resident 25 years ago, to get to the hospital we’d walk uphill, against the wind, in the snow, with no shoes on, and no one complained! But seriously, when I was a resident back then, my wife delivered our first child in the hospital at 5am where I was working. After staying up all night with her, i asked my IM attending if I could take off the morning to spend time with her her and my new son. He rolled his eyes, threw his hands up in the air, and said “whatever”, but was obviously pissed about it. Times have definitely changed, and I think for the better, since hours back then were kinda ridiculous sometimes.

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              • #22
                Senior resident on service said that his girlfriend was in town this weekend so requested that he only round on three patients and asked my friend to cover the rest of the patients. WTF? Is this acceptable in this day and age?

                He sounds like great new partner, maybe he could just skip , the nights holidays, weekends and buy in. Better yet , just go straight to retirement from residency.

                When I was a resident , there was another who wouldnt answer any of his calls for the last 2 hours of the day, so when my shift started at night , there would be several admissions already waiting in the ER.

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                • #23
                  Wait, are people really saying working slave-labor hours with life-threatening/debilitating acute illness is some badge of honor or some vague semblance of toughness/manhood? Lol give me a break. News flash: you were taken advantage of - not something to adulate..

                  The fact that millenial docs (like me) had much cushier residencies and lifestyles than the previous generation or two is a good thing, and is completely normal: it's not unreasonable to expect that as society in general progresses and advances, standard of living should improve for the next generation. That's a good thing.

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                  • #24
                    Originally posted by Craigslist View Post
                    When i was a single guy in residency, I hated everyone with kids and fiances because of the BS people like OPs post would do.
                    Not all people with kids or significant others have BS reasons to leave shifts. Maybe I take a little offense, as this wasn't the case for me or any of my colleagues in training who also had kids.

                    As a female who had my first in medical school and second in residency, I worked my butt off (and probably worked harder than some of my single colleagues). The ONLY shift I missed was my last ER shift while in residency because I was in labor (and frontloaded all of my shifts to try to avoid this). I actually was tempted to go work the shift after I delivered, as I was feeling great, but my OB and chief resident wouldn't let me.

                    I started taking call again 2 weeks after delivery (including going in and admitting patients). This included making up the one call shift I missed due to being recently post-partum (switched with another resident). I was probably too extreme in my attempts to return, but I also wanted to graduate on time.

                    y kids knew the hospital well, as the only times we could often spend time together was dinner on a slow day at the hospital. I am lucky to have a supportive spouse who helped me get through it. I can guarantee you I wasn't missing work or asking for coverage to go to soccer games or recitals. And my kids know nothing different. When I am not working, I am very present. But they also understand my work and are supportive of it.

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                    • #25
                      Originally posted by NumberWhizMD View Post

                      Not all people with kids or significant others have BS reasons to leave shifts. Maybe I take a little offense, as this wasn't the case for me or any of my colleagues in training who also had kids.

                      As a female who had my first in medical school and second in residency, I worked my butt off (and probably worked harder than some of my single colleagues). The ONLY shift I missed was my last ER shift while in residency because I was in labor (and frontloaded all of my shifts to try to avoid this). I actually was tempted to go work the shift after I delivered, as I was feeling great, but my OB and chief resident wouldn't let me.

                      I started taking call again 2 weeks after delivery (including going in and admitting patients). This included making up the one call shift I missed due to being recently post-partum (switched with another resident). I was probably too extreme in my attempts to return, but I also wanted to graduate on time.

                      y kids knew the hospital well, as the only times we could often spend time together was dinner on a slow day at the hospital. I am lucky to have a supportive spouse who helped me get through it. I can guarantee you I wasn't missing work or asking for coverage to go to soccer games or recitals. And my kids know nothing different. When I am not working, I am very present. But they also understand my work and are supportive of it.
                      Kudos to you for your work ethic and consideration of your colleagues during the birth of your child; you at least acknowledge the impact your temporary absence had on colleagues who covered during your delivery and short recovery.

                      I seem to recall another thread on this forum that explored this issue and others like it, in particular there was a lot of inflammatory rhetoric regarding life choices (i.e. kids, fiancees, et cetera) of a resident impacting the workload of residents who are singles minding their own business. I guess I can empathize with both sides of the coin here, as each is a life choice (no kids versus kids; DINKs; single parents, et cetera) for which the permutations are endless. I would hope that those who do make choices for family or significant others do acknowledge that the work will invariably fall on others, and usually it lands on the shoulders of those who are assumed to have fewer responsibilities because s/he doesn’t have a family, significant other, et cetera.

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                      • #26
                        Originally posted by Random1 View Post

                        When I was a resident , there was another who wouldnt answer any of his calls for the last 2 hours of the day, so when my shift started at night , there would be several admissions already waiting in the ER.
                        I was curious where hospitalists learned that behavior; it's apparently part of training.

                        I always find it amazing that there is a doc on call for admissions from 5 am to 4 pm and one on from 5 pm to 4 am but nobody on for two hours each day. Imagine if the ER itself ran that way. I get that nobody likes staying late (especially after a 12) but work out a system that makes sure the job is done. Such as the leaving doc putting in holding orders and the oncoming doc starting with that patient on the floor or something. What you get on one end you give back on the other. I feel like my group is only one in the hospital that understands this and works with each other to make sure the job is done.
                        Helping those who wear the white coat get a fair shake on Wall Street since 2011

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                        • #27
                          Originally posted by xraygoggles View Post
                          Wait, are people really saying working slave-labor hours with life-threatening/debilitating acute illness is some badge of honor or some vague semblance of toughness/manhood? Lol give me a break. News flash: you were taken advantage of - not something to adulate..

                          The fact that millenial docs (like me) had much cushier residencies and lifestyles than the previous generation or two is a good thing, and is completely normal: it's not unreasonable to expect that as society in general progresses and advances, standard of living should improve for the next generation. That's a good thing.
                          Spot on.
                          Don't let hospital system and their knowledge that doctors will work hard and put up with all kinds of sacrifices take advantage of you, PROVIDERS.
                          Choose life work balance and family over slaving away for your hospital system. Take care of your physical and mental health. At end of day they wont blink am eye to let you go if economic situation needs it.

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Originally posted by AR View Post

                            So, what did your friend say?
                            He negotiated(wtf?) that the resident put in the orders. His read on the situation was that the resident thought this was punishment for the ask.(Your work is your punishment, wtf?).

                            It's a Mad World(Gary Jules for the 'lennials, Tears for Fear for X)

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                            • #29
                              Originally posted by xraygoggles View Post
                              Wait, are people really saying working slave-labor hours with life-threatening/debilitating acute illness is some badge of honor or some vague semblance of toughness/manhood? Lol give me a break. News flash: you were taken advantage of - not something to adulate..

                              The fact that millenial docs (like me) had much cushier residencies and lifestyles than the previous generation or two is a good thing, and is completely normal: it's not unreasonable to expect that as society in general progresses and advances, standard of living should improve for the next generation. That's a good thing.
                              Agree it’s a good thing (not working through severe illness that is—having your significant other visit on a weekend you know you are supposed to be working and then using that as an excuse to get out of work is just lame). With this change needs to come systemic change though…maybe a float pool of residents…but that impacts resident education/they will complain about the month on float…maybe a float pool of midlevels…people will c/o about that too. If you are going to switch to a more compassionate egalitarian system it also has to take into account the needs/feelings/concerns of those who got dumped on by those above them in the less compassionate system who now are expected to accept getting dumped on by those below them in the new enlightened system

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                              • #30
                                Originally posted by xraygoggles View Post
                                Wait, are people really saying working slave-labor hours with life-threatening/debilitating acute illness is some badge of honor or some vague semblance of toughness/manhood? Lol give me a break. News flash: you were taken advantage of - not something to adulate..

                                The fact that millenial docs (like me) had much cushier residencies and lifestyles than the previous generation or two is a good thing, and is completely normal: it's not unreasonable to expect that as society in general progresses and advances, standard of living should improve for the next generation. That's a good thing.
                                Sure, but it has swung too far the other way. I had a resident tell me they shouldn’t have to see a social admit because it wasn’t educational. I told her she was wrong and that, believe it or not, they are paying you to do a job. She decided that we should agree to disagree.

                                Obviously, I think it’s wrong that women used to work in labor until the time to push, but we have gone so soft as to be embarrassing. Give a resident appropriate feedback and it’s almost certainly going to filter back to the program director as not forming an inclusive work environment. If you don’t let your residents leave at 5 with a gold star and snack, it’s abusive.

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