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  • #16
    Document safe? This is not 1975. Try a "scanner" and "the cloud"

    Gun safe is basically just to keep kids out of them or honest people honest, right? A simple $500 gun locker with a padlock will do that. That could be in laundry room or climate control garage or whatever. Insert real or dummy video cameras as you like.

    If you want a real half ton safe, try a Edison or something... but bring your wallet. Most people put them in the study or guest room or something. And I hope you plan on living there quite awhile... delivery or future relocation will cost you a grand or more.

    The only (smallish) fireproof safe I had has now turned into a dummy safe with some junk silver, broken Movado, and things I don't care for anymore (to make any burglar think they "found it"). It goes back to common sense op sec: don't have a flashy place overall, don't tell anyone local you have stuff, don't tell anyone local where your stuff is, don't show off your stuff much/any. Most of the truly valuable stuff I have in the house is gold coins or a couple grand in cash and maybe a few lux watches... easily kept in unlikely spots in plain sight (I use the $10 fake book, pop can, soup can, etc stash item locations... or make my own). And while the dollar bills and watches are screwed in a fire, the gold is naturally fireproof. A fire is the least of my worries in the snowy mountains. My only real minor concern would be punk kids or a crazy boyfriend of an ex or something (probably on drugs if they'd risk getting shot doing a smash grab break-in in a semi-rural part of a red state).
    Last edited by Max Power; 03-13-2022, 07:56 PM.

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    • #17
      Originally posted by F0017S0 View Post
      Make sure you cycle your magazines and ammunition, too. Go to the range every few months, buy new ammunition to replace stock you take from the safe. You don't want to be in a position with dud ammunition and rusty skills when it matters...
      you dont want to keep ammunition in the safe with papers/valuable etc because in case of fire, it can go off/burn and ruin anything you have inside the safe. need to have a second safe or storage area separate from valuables

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      • #18
        Originally posted by Max Power View Post
        Document safe? This is not 1975. Try a "scanner" and "the cloud"

        Gun safe is basically just to keep kids out of them or honest people honest, right? A simple $500 gun locker with a padlock will do that. That could be in laundry room or climate control garage or whatever. Insert real or dummy video cameras as you like.

        If you want a real half ton safe, try a Edison or something... but bring your wallet. Most people put them in the study or guest room or something. And I hope you plan on living there quite awhile... delivery or future relocation will cost you a grand or more.

        The only (smallish) fireproof safe I had has now turned into a dummy safe with some junk silver, broken Movado, and things I don't care for anymore (to make any burglar think they "found it"). It goes back to common sense op sec: don't have a flashy place overall, don't tell anyone local you have stuff, don't tell anyone local where your stuff is, don't show off your stuff much/any. Most of the truly valuable stuff I have in the house is gold coins or a couple grand in cash and maybe a few lux watches... easily kept in unlikely spots in plain sight (I use the $10 fake book, pop can, soup can, etc stash item locations... or make my own). And while the dollar bills and watches are screwed in a fire, the gold is naturally fireproof. A fire is the least of my worries in the snowy mountains. My only real minor concern would be punk kids or a crazy boyfriend of an ex or something (probably on drugs if they'd risk getting shot doing a smash grab break-in in a semi-rural part of a red state).



        LOL on the 1975 dig. however, we still have passports, bonds , old photographs (pre digital), marriage certificate, birth certificates, social security cards, physical signed trust/will documents (these are 6" thick binders x2), collector watches and jewelry, etc etc need someplace to store and protect them.

        we aren't flashy and don't tell people what we have or brag. a fake storage book/pop can etc is fine to help protect against theft but doesn't protect against fire/water/tornado so that is not an option.

        so why am I suddenly so concerned about this after so many years? I had a close family member who's house burned down and lost everything and it got me really thinking about ways to protect valuable items (both in $$ and emotional).

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        • #19
          Originally posted by DollaDollaBillS$$$ View Post
          so why am I suddenly so concerned about this after so many years? I had a close family member who's house burned down and lost everything and it got me really thinking about ways to protect valuable items (both in $$ and emotional).
          If their house truly burnt down then everything that was paper inside the safe would have burned and there’s a decent chance the other objects would have been ruined as well.

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          • #20
            Originally posted by DollaDollaBillS$$$ View Post
            ...so why am I suddenly so concerned about this after so many years? I had a close family member who's house burned down and lost everything and it got me really thinking about ways to protect valuable items (both in $$ and emotional).
            The memories aren't in the things, they're in you.

            Scans are fine. I would be willing to bet old photos haven't been looked at in years would be better off in a powerpoint emailed to family?

            Just because somebody else was attached to a bunch of things or didn't take the time to scan theirs doesn't mean you need to make a crazy plan.

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            • #21
              Originally posted by CordMcNally View Post

              If their house truly burnt down then everything that was paper inside the safe would have burned and there’s a decent chance the other objects would have been ruined as well.

              not necessarily, "UL class 350 – a fireproof safe with this rating comes with 1-hour and 2-hour variants which both of them keep the internal temperature no more than 350F. Paper commonly burns at 450F "
              Last edited by DollaDollaBillS$$$; 03-14-2022, 01:58 PM.

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              • #22
                Originally posted by DollaDollaBillS$$$ View Post


                not necessarily, "UL class 350 – a fireproof safe with this rating comes with 1-hour and 2-hour variants which both of them keep the internal temperature no more than 3500F. Paper commonly burns at 4500F "
                I think you added an extra zero. Paper spontaneously ignites at a much lower temperature than 4500F. That’s why Fahrenheit 451 is titled as such although it appears Bradbury was off by a small amount.

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                • #23
                  Originally posted by CordMcNally View Post

                  I think you added an extra zero. Paper spontaneously ignites at a much lower temperature than 4500F. That’s why Fahrenheit 451 is titled as such although it appears Bradbury was off by a small amount.
                  I was thinking the same thing but you beat me to it. I might stick some paper in the oven and experiment later...

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                  • #24
                    The internal temperature of the safe in a house fire will be nowhere near 3500F, let alone 4500F.

                    The fire itself is typically 1000-1500F, and perhaps 2000F in the attic. Significantly less in the basement. Heat rises.

                    Pizza ovens can approach 1000F, which is hot AF. The surface of the sun is 10,000F.

                    A house fire is definitely still hot, don’t get me wrong, but documents in a well placed fire-resistant safe are actually fairly likely to survive a house fire.

                    That’s the whole point.

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                    • #25
                      Originally posted by CordMcNally View Post

                      I think you added an extra zero. Paper spontaneously ignites at a much lower temperature than 4500F. That’s why Fahrenheit 451 is titled as such although it appears Bradbury was off by a small amount.
                      Oops your right. Too many zeros. (Changed that). But my point being that a good quality safe will keep the internal temp low enough for an hour or two to prevent ignition until the fire can be extinguished.

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                      • #26
                        I have a cheap sentry safe and you have to put desiccant inside it. If you don’t paper and other items will get wet/moldy and be ruined. I have two mason jars with screen tops filled with rechargeable silicone beads. You recharge them by baking them.

                        In retrospect I didn’t need such a heavy safe just a firebox. I don’t keep a lot of cash/valuables and it’s mainly for document protection. Everything is scanned into the cloud anyways.

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                        • #27
                          Originally posted by CordMcNally View Post
                          Do you need a safe to keep kids out of or are you worried about your stuff getting stolen? Safes are mainly good for keeping the undetermined out of them.
                          A real safe, not the smaller gun safes, should keep even the very determined and all but professional thieves out. Unfortunately most small reasonably priced ones, for hand guns and quick retrieval are awful and easily bypassed before you even need to think of trying to pick them, which isnt hard either.

                          But real ones should be much better, I havent researched them myself, but do enjoy a bit of lock picking, and even those things you see on the movies take literal days and cost 10s of thousands of dollars to defeat dials. I'd obviously check to see whether or not its easily bypassed and avoid crap.

                          This reminds me I need to recharge my silicate packets.

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                          • #28
                            Chubb has a good amount of information about safes on their site. If you insure with them they will consult as to how expensive a safe to get, where to put it and how to install. This is Chubb, so they target people who will have many very expensive items and hence recommend safes that are more expensive than all our valuables.

                            I assume one uses a gun safe to keep guns you use protected from burglary and perhaps to comply with local laws.
                            Expensive gun collections may require the same precautions as art and other collectibles. Massive safes bolted to the floor in climate-controlled rooms. Security systems, guards...

                            Chubb will also advise what to keep.at home and what to store in secure off-site facilities.

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                            • #29
                              Bumping this because I have been considering a small safe recently - mainly just for some sentimental documents/passports/cash/watches I keep at home. I will get the fireproof/waterproof bags but still need a safe to store it.

                              I have checked online but they all have such similar reviews it's hard to separate the wheat from the chaff.... anyone specifically recommend a brand name that is reasonably priced for a small safe that is not too heavy and can be easily moved?

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                              • #30
                                i've been shopping around for a giant safe (have smaller one now for documents). I will only buy a made in USA safe (Liberty for example). Spartan Safe is one place to look. Maybe there is one near you. If you get a giant safe you basically need to consider it as part of the home when you sell. Pretty tough to move (that is the point).

                                Are you suggesting that the installer of the safe should "disappear" once the job is completed? @lordoisis. This is why you should always use a safe moving company (they only move safes). The movers are registered with background checks etc. Anyone else knowing you have a safe kind of defeats the purpose.

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