Do you intentionally try to drink x cups of water per day?

[burritos]

Huh?

Don't MD's always document "moist mucous membranes" as code for not being dehydrated? Also, mitigates sialolithiasis. And if one isn't drinking, the H in the spit H20 is coming from fatty acid metabolism. The O is coming from air.

[CordMcNally]

I have the "eating disorder" where I when I work I only eat and drink(2-4 cups of water/tea/etoh) during dinner, nothing for the rest of my day. Been doing this for almost 4 years. 3-4/wk. While I work I still urinate throughout the day. It's not voluminous, maybe 3-400cc. Mouth is never dry, I go outside to spit throughout the day. The urine is a light yellow. Never dark. I can always see the toilet bowl stains through the urine, even after housekeeping has cleaned it. When I first started doing this, my UA had ketones, but those are gone as of 2 years ago. I think I have renal resorption of ketones as to not waste energy.

Huh?

[bovie]

It takes energy and Na for the kidney to clear free water, but if that's what you have to do to not have stones, then you gotta do what you gotta do. BTW, my understanding is that nephrons require more energy than any other cell even beyond neurons and hepatocytes. That's why CKD is prevalent when your bioenergetics becomes dysfuctional(ie. IR and DM). If you kidney energy demands aren't met, well it starts to fail.

A nephron isn’t a cell.

[burritos]

That's interesting. I always thought that neurons were the most energy hungry.

It's a pain to drink that much water daily, I definitely wouldn't do it if I didn't have to.

That's what I used to think but, but nature has energetically prioritized clearing nitrogen wastes. How great would our civilizations be without a sewage system?

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5431085/

the human kidneys constitute only 0.5%of body mass, they consume 10%of the oxygen used in cellular respiration

https://time.com/5400025/does-thinking-burn-calories/

While the brain represents just 2% of a person's total body weight, it accounts for 20% of the body's energy use

Though if you look at this paper

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/art...0and%20tissues.

Ranking of energy by density is 1. Heart. 2. Kidney. 3. Brain. 4. Liver

Ranking of total energy usage by organ 1. Liver. 2. Brain. 3. Heart 4. Kidney.

I think most people wouldn't guess that the by organ, liver uses the most energy.

[K82]

It takes energy and Na for the kidney to clear free water, but if that's what you have to do to not have stones, then you gotta do what you gotta do. BTW, my understanding is that nephrons require more energy than any other cell even beyond neurons and hepatocytes. That's why CKD is prevalent when your bioenergetics becomes dysfuctional(ie. IR and DM). If you kidney energy demands aren't met, well it starts to fail.

That's interesting. I always thought that neurons were the most energy hungry.

It's a pain to drink that much water daily, I definitely wouldn't do it if I didn't have to.

[burritos]

I'm not a urologist but I understand that the standard recommendation for stone former's is to PRODUCE 3 L of urine a day, not just drink 3L. Any urologists on the forum recommend anything different?

It takes energy and Na for the kidney to clear free water, but if that's what you have to do to not have stones, then you gotta do what you gotta do. BTW, my understanding is that nephrons require more energy than any other cell even beyond neurons and hepatocytes. That's why CKD is prevalent when your bioenergetics becomes dysfuctional(ie. IR and DM). If you kidney energy demands aren't met, well it starts to fail.

[burritos]

My goal it to get the urine clear or close to it by mid day. I do not have any data to support this but it is just what I shoot for.

I have the "eating disorder" where I when I work I only eat and drink(2-4 cups of water/tea/etoh) during dinner, nothing for the rest of my day. Been doing this for almost 4 years. 3-4/wk. While I work I still urinate throughout the day. It's not voluminous, maybe 3-400cc. Mouth is never dry, I go outside to spit throughout the day. The urine is a light yellow. Never dark. I can always see the toilet bowl stains through the urine, even after housekeeping has cleaned it. When I first started doing this, my UA had ketones, but those are gone as of 2 years ago. I think I have renal resorption of ketones as to not waste energy.

[K82]

How does extra water factor into that, you make most of your water via food, and soda and other things have water as well. If urine is relatively dilute already, makes no sense.

In ever discussing these topics, we shouldnt be focusing general takes on outliers.

I'm not a urologist but I understand that the standard recommendation for stone former's is to PRODUCE 3 L of urine a day, not just drink 3L. Any urologists on the forum recommend anything different?

[Lordosis]

Can how yellow the urine is be a gross proxy as to how concentrated the urine is?

My goal it to get the urine clear or close to it by mid day. I do not have any data to support this but it is just what I shoot for.

[Zaphod]

Experiencing a kidney stone may change your opinion....

How does extra water factor into that, you make most of your water via food, and soda and other things have water as well. If urine is relatively dilute already, makes no sense.

In ever discussing these topics, we shouldnt be focusing general takes on outliers.

[K82]

Unless you do a randomized trial with matched numbers for having a predilection for kidney stones and one group drinks normal amounts of water during the day and other takes excess to flush the kidneys and find out if the control group has statically increased chances of having a stone, all this is conjecture and wishful thinking.

You may be right, but I know in my own case I had 3 renal stones after having passed one and started drinking 3L of water a day. One year later I did a CT and I had only one stone left. After I started drinking the water not only have I never had another ureteral stone, despite eating a lot of nuts daily, but I have two less renal stones. There is no other change in my behavior that would have caused this.

[burritos]

Can how yellow the urine is be a gross proxy as to how concentrated the urine is?

[Kamban]

Yes, my understanding is that it keeps the tubules flushed out and prevents stone formation. But the flip side is that a lack of enough water allows stone formation.

Unless you do a randomized trial with matched numbers for having a predilection for kidney stones and one group drinks normal amounts of water during the day and other takes excess to flush the kidneys and find out if the control group has statically increased chances of having a stone, all this is conjecture and wishful thinking.

[dataentryspecialist]

I try to force fluid consumption bc I am hypertensive by design (thanks mom and dad). My personal BP goal is below 120 systolic based on results of the SPRINT-MIND paper. So I’m on 2 agent therapy. If I get volume down at all, I get severe orthostatic hypotension. I also drink about 12 cups of coffee per day and forget to drink or eat for hours on end while working, so I have to make a conscious effort to drink.

[K82]

I don’t think kidney stones are due to lack of water. More so that it helps dilute/mitigate the cumulative effects of common inciting molecules(uric acid and oxalate).

Yes, my understanding is that it keeps the tubules flushed out and prevents stone formation. But the flip side is that a lack of enough water allows stone formation.