Do you intentionally try to drink x cups of water per day?

[burritos]

That's interesting. I always thought that neurons were the most energy hungry.

It's a pain to drink that much water daily, I definitely wouldn't do it if I didn't have to.

That's what I used to think but, but nature has energetically prioritized clearing nitrogen wastes. How great would our civilizations be without a sewage system?

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5431085/

the human kidneys constitute only 0.5%of body mass, they consume 10%of the oxygen used in cellular respiration

https://time.com/5400025/does-thinking-burn-calories/

While the brain represents just 2% of a person's total body weight, it accounts for 20% of the body's energy use

Though if you look at this paper

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/art...0and%20tissues.

Ranking of energy by density is 1. Heart. 2. Kidney. 3. Brain. 4. Liver

Ranking of total energy usage by organ 1. Liver. 2. Brain. 3. Heart 4. Kidney.

I think most people wouldn't guess that the by organ, liver uses the most energy.

[bovie]

It takes energy and Na for the kidney to clear free water, but if that's what you have to do to not have stones, then you gotta do what you gotta do. BTW, my understanding is that nephrons require more energy than any other cell even beyond neurons and hepatocytes. That's why CKD is prevalent when your bioenergetics becomes dysfuctional(ie. IR and DM). If you kidney energy demands aren't met, well it starts to fail.

A nephron isn’t a cell.

[CordMcNally]

I have the "eating disorder" where I when I work I only eat and drink(2-4 cups of water/tea/etoh) during dinner, nothing for the rest of my day. Been doing this for almost 4 years. 3-4/wk. While I work I still urinate throughout the day. It's not voluminous, maybe 3-400cc. Mouth is never dry, I go outside to spit throughout the day. The urine is a light yellow. Never dark. I can always see the toilet bowl stains through the urine, even after housekeeping has cleaned it. When I first started doing this, my UA had ketones, but those are gone as of 2 years ago. I think I have renal resorption of ketones as to not waste energy.

Huh?

[burritos]

Huh?

Don't MD's always document "moist mucous membranes" as code for not being dehydrated? Also, mitigates sialolithiasis. And if one isn't drinking, the H in the spit H20 is coming from fatty acid metabolism. The O is coming from air.

[burritos]

https://nextshark.com/bruce-lee-death-too-much-water-study

[burritos]

Saw a 5 ft, 100 lb lady yesterday who said she intentionally drank 1 gallon of water a day. I told her to cut that out and to only drink when she’s thirsty, but then told her that was only my opinion and that most doctors are on board with drinking water for health:

https://www.yahoo.com/gma/family-speaks-35-old-woman-141400432.html

[PharmMedMD]

It’s my belief that physiologically if you restrict from drinking, it directs your body into fat metabolism to create free water. It works for camels and whales. Actually likely, works for all animals, those are two examples that highlight the point.

Wait, why would dehydration stimulate lipolysis? You need water molecules to break down a fat molecule and I had thought that animal studies supported over hydration as reducing lipid (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4901052/). I've never worked in this part of medicine and would not be a great example of minimal body fat so I'm asking in part in case I've completely misunderstood.

[burritos]

Wait, why would dehydration stimulate lipolysis? You need water molecules to break down a fat molecule and I had thought that animal studies supported over hydration as reducing lipid (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4901052/). I've never worked in this part of medicine and would not be a great example of minimal body fat so I'm asking in part in case I've completely misunderstood.

If you drink a lot of water, many things could be happening to reduce weight: Eating less and possibly using increased energy utilized to clear excess free water.

I'm not sure of all the reaction that drive cell physiology, but the ultimate sink to drive aerobic metabolism is 1. Krebs. 2. Electron transport chain

It does take H20 to drive the drive Krebs:

But then you get 3 NADH and 1 FADH2 for every water and when you run these through ETC:

You get get 3 H20 from ETC for every H20 you spend from Krebs.

The 02 you breath is so you can off load C(from lipids/sugar) as CO2. And to off load H(from lipids and sugar) and H20.

Those humps on camels' backs are not humps of water, they are humps of fat. And sea mammals get their free water not from drinking sea water and doing reverse through their kidneys, they are producing water through fat metabolism.

[The White Coat Investor]

I'm a generally drink to thirst kind of guy but it's very easy to get behind as an active person in the desert in the summer. I'm probably a set up for stones.

[Firedoc_MD]

Purely because someone asked. This is literally in the AUA guidelines for medical management of kidney stones. If you google "AUA guidelines for kidney stones" you'll get both the medical AND surgical guidelines... for free!

Guideline 8 - Clinicians should recommend to all stone formers a fluid intake that will achieve a urine volume of at least 2.5 liters daily. (Standard; Evidence Strength: Grade B)

Just so everyone is clear - thats a urine OUTPUT of 2.5L a day. Most people need to consume more fluid (especially if they work outside) to produce that volume. It's THE MOST important thing to tell any stone forming patient to do.

I'll get off my soapbox now.

[PharmMedMD]

If you drink a lot of water, many things could be happening to reduce weight: Eating less and possibly using increased energy utilized to clear excess free water.

I'm not sure of all the reaction that drive cell physiology, but the ultimate sink to drive aerobic metabolism is 1. Krebs. 2. Electron transport chain

It does take H20 to drive the drive Krebs:

But then you get 3 NADH and 1 FADH2 for every water and when you run these through ETC:

You get get 3 H20 from ETC for every H20 you spend from Krebs.

The 02 you breath is so you can off load C(from lipids/sugar) as CO2. And to off load H(from lipids and sugar) and H20.

Those humps on camels' backs are not humps of water, they are humps of fat. And sea mammals get their free water not from drinking sea water and doing reverse through their kidneys, they are producing water through fat metabolism.

Thanks for taking the time to explain. What doesn't quite make sense to me is that the steps which generate net water are not unique to fat. Acetyl CoA is the input generated by carbohydrates and protein metabolism as well while for fats the first and rate-limiting step is performed by ATGL and requires input of water molecules for that initial lysis of fat to glycerol and fatty acids. It intuitively seems to me that if the body is starved for water it gets it faster by catabolizing proteins or carbohydrates rather than fat even though fat ultimately generates more water molecules. I know from drug development that intuition is frequently wrong and it's pretty clear that this is working well for camels, so I am not trying to claim that you are not correct. Anyway, thanks again for explaining your reasoning.

[jfoxcpacfp]

Saw a 5 ft, 100 lb lady yesterday who said she intentionally drank 1 gallon of water a day. I told her to cut that out and to only drink when she’s thirsty, but then told her that was only my opinion and that most doctors are on board with drinking water for health:

https://www.yahoo.com/gma/family-speaks-35-old-woman-141400432.html

I read that - freaked me out. I understand Europeans think it’s really weird that Americans feel so attached to their bottles of water, no matter where they are or what they’re doing. If you think about it, it is a little funny. I sip on cucumber water or tea during the day, but it’s just a habit and I love making cucumber water now that I have a fridge that makes it automatically. Refreshing.

[burritos]

Purely because someone asked. This is literally in the AUA guidelines for medical management of kidney stones. If you google "AUA guidelines for kidney stones" you'll get both the medical AND surgical guidelines... for free!

Guideline 8 - Clinicians should recommend to all stone formers a fluid intake that will achieve a urine volume of at least 2.5 liters daily. (Standard; Evidence Strength: Grade B)

Just so everyone is clear - thats a urine OUTPUT of 2.5L a day. Most people need to consume more fluid (especially if they work outside) to produce that volume. It's THE MOST important thing to tell any stone forming patient to do.

I'll get off my soapbox now.

The most common stones Uric acid and oxalates. Oxalates from plants and grains. Urates from fructose, glucose->fructose and etoh metabolism. But drinking water is for this.

[burritos]

Thanks for taking the time to explain. What doesn't quite make sense to me is that the steps which generate net water are not unique to fat. Acetyl CoA is the input generated by carbohydrates and protein metabolism as well while for fats the first and rate-limiting step is performed by ATGL and requires input of water molecules for that initial lysis of fat to glycerol and fatty acids. It intuitively seems to me that if the body is starved for water it gets it faster by catabolizing proteins or carbohydrates rather than fat even though fat ultimately generates more water molecules. I know from drug development that intuition is frequently wrong and it's pretty clear that this is working well for camels, so I am not trying to claim that you are not correct. Anyway, thanks again for explaining your reasoning.

Thanks. And I agree, it is my reasoning, which is not the same a truth. Unlike the rest of the posters who are right 100% of the time, I admit, I’m right maybe 50-60% of the time. But I could be wrong about that.

[jfoxcpacfp]

Unlike the rest of the posters who are right 100% of the time...

😂🤣😅