Do you intentionally try to drink x cups of water per day?

[K82]

It takes energy and Na for the kidney to clear free water, but if that's what you have to do to not have stones, then you gotta do what you gotta do. BTW, my understanding is that nephrons require more energy than any other cell even beyond neurons and hepatocytes. That's why CKD is prevalent when your bioenergetics becomes dysfuctional(ie. IR and DM). If you kidney energy demands aren't met, well it starts to fail.

That's interesting. I always thought that neurons were the most energy hungry.

It's a pain to drink that much water daily, I definitely wouldn't do it if I didn't have to.

[burritos]

I'm not a urologist but I understand that the standard recommendation for stone former's is to PRODUCE 3 L of urine a day, not just drink 3L. Any urologists on the forum recommend anything different?

It takes energy and Na for the kidney to clear free water, but if that's what you have to do to not have stones, then you gotta do what you gotta do. BTW, my understanding is that nephrons require more energy than any other cell even beyond neurons and hepatocytes. That's why CKD is prevalent when your bioenergetics becomes dysfuctional(ie. IR and DM). If you kidney energy demands aren't met, well it starts to fail.

[burritos]

My goal it to get the urine clear or close to it by mid day. I do not have any data to support this but it is just what I shoot for.

I have the "eating disorder" where I when I work I only eat and drink(2-4 cups of water/tea/etoh) during dinner, nothing for the rest of my day. Been doing this for almost 4 years. 3-4/wk. While I work I still urinate throughout the day. It's not voluminous, maybe 3-400cc. Mouth is never dry, I go outside to spit throughout the day. The urine is a light yellow. Never dark. I can always see the toilet bowl stains through the urine, even after housekeeping has cleaned it. When I first started doing this, my UA had ketones, but those are gone as of 2 years ago. I think I have renal resorption of ketones as to not waste energy.

[K82]

How does extra water factor into that, you make most of your water via food, and soda and other things have water as well. If urine is relatively dilute already, makes no sense.

In ever discussing these topics, we shouldnt be focusing general takes on outliers.

I'm not a urologist but I understand that the standard recommendation for stone former's is to PRODUCE 3 L of urine a day, not just drink 3L. Any urologists on the forum recommend anything different?

[Lordosis]

Can how yellow the urine is be a gross proxy as to how concentrated the urine is?

My goal it to get the urine clear or close to it by mid day. I do not have any data to support this but it is just what I shoot for.

[Zaphod]

Experiencing a kidney stone may change your opinion....

How does extra water factor into that, you make most of your water via food, and soda and other things have water as well. If urine is relatively dilute already, makes no sense.

In ever discussing these topics, we shouldnt be focusing general takes on outliers.

[K82]

Unless you do a randomized trial with matched numbers for having a predilection for kidney stones and one group drinks normal amounts of water during the day and other takes excess to flush the kidneys and find out if the control group has statically increased chances of having a stone, all this is conjecture and wishful thinking.

You may be right, but I know in my own case I had 3 renal stones after having passed one and started drinking 3L of water a day. One year later I did a CT and I had only one stone left. After I started drinking the water not only have I never had another ureteral stone, despite eating a lot of nuts daily, but I have two less renal stones. There is no other change in my behavior that would have caused this.

[burritos]

Can how yellow the urine is be a gross proxy as to how concentrated the urine is?

[Kamban]

Yes, my understanding is that it keeps the tubules flushed out and prevents stone formation. But the flip side is that a lack of enough water allows stone formation.

Unless you do a randomized trial with matched numbers for having a predilection for kidney stones and one group drinks normal amounts of water during the day and other takes excess to flush the kidneys and find out if the control group has statically increased chances of having a stone, all this is conjecture and wishful thinking.

[dataentryspecialist]

I try to force fluid consumption bc I am hypertensive by design (thanks mom and dad). My personal BP goal is below 120 systolic based on results of the SPRINT-MIND paper. So I’m on 2 agent therapy. If I get volume down at all, I get severe orthostatic hypotension. I also drink about 12 cups of coffee per day and forget to drink or eat for hours on end while working, so I have to make a conscious effort to drink.

[K82]

I don’t think kidney stones are due to lack of water. More so that it helps dilute/mitigate the cumulative effects of common inciting molecules(uric acid and oxalate).

Yes, my understanding is that it keeps the tubules flushed out and prevents stone formation. But the flip side is that a lack of enough water allows stone formation.

[burritos]

Experiencing a kidney stone may change your opinion....

I don’t think kidney stones are due to lack of water. More so that it helps dilute/mitigate the cumulative effects of common inciting molecules(uric acid and oxalate).

[K82]

Exactly, never cam from anywhere.

Shocked, and super dismayed a bunch of doctors having such a serious discussion about an obviously not important topic. This is some kind of wives tale old marketing, and taken as true on its face cuz we grew up with it? Crazy.

As Dr. Glaucof nephrologist character says, "do you not trust your kidneys"?

Experiencing a kidney stone may change your opinion....

[Zaphod]

If you think about it, the recommendation was utter nonsense. When did humans get dehydrated doing daily activities and needed to be carrying the extra bottles of water all day long and sipping on it when clinical and blood tests showed they were not dehydrated. Most were not running marathons or gardening in the hot sun. But it helped drive up those water bottle sales.

Sometimes when I see the people carrying a humongous bottle of water from house to work to every other place and chugging on it I wonder if they truly have gotten locked in syndrome from the hyponatremia :-)

Exactly, never came from anywhere.

Shocked, and super dismayed a bunch of doctors having such a serious discussion about an obviously not important topic. This is some kind of wives tale old marketing, and taken as true on its face cuz we grew up with it? Crazy.

As Dr. Glaucof nephrologist character says, "do you not trust your kidneys"?

[Kamban]

Drink when you're thirsty. Everyone is different, particularly older people. Just drinking water-especially more than what you need-makes you lose sodium. "Drink x cups/day" is BS based on studies done a jillion years ago done on three people but spread as medical dogma. Drinking water makes you lose weight only applies if you are replace soda with it.

If you think about it, the recommendation was utter nonsense. When did humans get dehydrated doing daily activities and needed to be carrying the extra bottles of water all day long and sipping on it when clinical and blood tests showed they were not dehydrated. Most were not running marathons or gardening in the hot sun. But it helped drive up those water bottle sales.

Sometimes when I see the people carrying a humongous bottle of water from house to work to every other place and chugging on it I wonder if they truly have gotten locked in syndrome from the hyponatremia :-)