Physician Coach- any recs?

[snowcanyon]

Looks like everyone is trying to flee clinical medicine- I know others have recommended Heather Fork, but even here waiting list is closed (!). Does anyone have any other suggestions?

Thanks!

[jfoxcpacfp]

I do, but you’ll need to pm me.

[Lordosis]

This comes up frequently but I still do not get it. What does a coach do exactly? What are you looking to gain from the experience?

[jfoxcpacfp]

I started to answer this, but my perspective may not be reality - hopefully someone who uses a coach will respond. The person I recommended focuses on men (although he’s open to anyone) because most of the coaches are female and are more female-oriented. In financial planning discussions, I’ve learned it’s a lot more difficult for a male doctor to admit there is something wrong with their careers that they can’t fix than it is for female, so I think he’s found a good niche.

[VagabondMD]

This comes up frequently but I still do not get it. What does a coach do exactly? What are you looking to gain from the experience?

I had an excellent coach who helped me with career transition when I experienced debilitating burnout several years ago. I went from full time partner IR/DR and department chair to full time partner IR/DR to full time partner DR to part time partner DR to contract DR in two locations (one local, one commuting) to ex-clinical, over a period of five years. There is a lot going on in your head when you are burned out and looking for something different, and it helps to have someone to talk about these issues, someone who understands docs, how they think and respond, and to support you along the way.

[Tim]

Just an observation. Work/Life balance.
How many times do we see doctors (especially new docs) going full speed ahead with work?
Of course some decide, it’s all about experiences and tilt the other way. When you have any type of conflict, who do you talk it out with?
An unbiased impartial view and sounding board is invaluable in seeking equilibrium. The reality is that those close to you are not really impartial and loath to point out and lack the skill to tell you that you are actually the source of needed change.
Change is uncomfortable and you probably the smartest person in the room. Smart enough to get an independent opinion.

[FIREshrink]

This comes up frequently but I still do not get it. What does a coach do exactly? What are you looking to gain from the experience?

What does a therapist do exactly?

[Lithium]

As others have pointed out before, a lot of these coaches are MD’s who have burned out or transitioned out of clinical medicine. That’s kind of like Aaron Rodgers giving money to Andrew Luck to help him work out a plan to extend his career as an NFL QB. I guess if you are leaning towards getting out of medicine and just aren’t sure how, the premise of seeing an ex-MD coach isn’t quite as laughable.

I think some of them may provide value, but their services can be obtained more cheaply and possibly in superior form elsewhere. Need some reflective listening and an empathetic ear? I’d rather see a legitimate therapist. If you want to brainstorm ideas, you can use this forum or one of the nonclinical career groups on social media. Perhaps if a coach can connect you to a professional network that can help you get a unique idea off the ground, that would be a value add. Or maybe if you think a coach can draw on years or decades of experience to suggest a perfect idea for you which somehow has been in your blind spot this entire time (which IMO is expecting way too much). That might work for some people, but after a lot of introspection, I’ve concluded that I don’t have the kind of burnout that any guru can fix.

[Lordosis]

What does a therapist do exactly?

I am not quite sure. I have never been in therapy. My patients say that they do nothing and only xanax helps

[familydocPA]

As others have pointed out before, a lot of these coaches are MD’s who have burned out or transitioned out of clinical medicine. That’s kind of like Aaron Rodgers giving money to Andrew Luck to help him work out a plan to extend his career as an NFL QB.

Lol, so true.

I went through TPP's coaching experience last year, only because my work paid for it with CME money and I couldn't travel anyway. It was a good experience, but I would not have felt it worth it if I spent my own money. I felt as though many of the participants were more clinically depressed and needed therapy, not coaching. I was hoping for more guidance on refocusing my career and family priorities, so at times it felt like we were on different wavelengths. But it was helpful, and I found my job satisfaction increased during the course of the program and I was able to shift my priorities as I hoped. Small changes, but definitely positive.

[Lithium]

Lol, so true.

I went through TPP's coaching experience last year, only because my work paid for it with CME money and I couldn't travel anyway. It was a good experience, but I would not have felt it worth it if I spent my own money. I felt as though many of the participants were more clinically depressed and needed therapy, not coaching. I was hoping for more guidance on refocusing my career and family priorities, so at times it felt like we were on different wavelengths. But it was helpful, and I found my job satisfaction increased during the course of the program and I was able to shift my priorities as I hoped. Small changes, but definitely positive.

I’m not even implying that most people considering coaching have a DSM diagnosis, but if I wanted counseling I would rather go to better help than see an anesthesiologist. And it’s way cheaper, though it never crossed my mind that you could use a CME fund for life coaching. Now I see why TPP jumped on it.

[snowcanyon]

I mainly posted to get recs for physician coaches, and hope to get more info on possibilities, not a referendum on the value of career coaches, although the discussion has been interesting.

I'm open to other suggestions regarding career change, burnout, leaving clinical medicine etc.

[Max Power]

This is just a case of how you perceive your career and your work. Nothing more, nothing less. It is up to you if you want to pay a therapist or some doc who likely failed at clinical medicine themselves... you will ultimately have to weather these problems of adjusting your mental frame, creating self-motivation, and engineering self-satisfaction time and time again.

It helps to take a break (even a long weekend), clear your schedule, and think on it. I have done this (mandated it) for more than a couple of burnt out surgical fellows, usually because they are getting very short with staff to the point where I feel they may make a negative mark on their career despite all of their work to that point. On your pondering retreat, consider that:
you make more than 90pct of folks,
consider your work helps people,
consider that the work helps keep your mind engaged,
and you help put food on the table for your support staff also.
It is not such a bad deal, huh? Mainly consider that you very likely will NOT find a better paying or more enriching alternative. Also consider how many more years you will likely have to work if you go part time, non-clinical... or how much you will have to lower your family's standards of living and travel if you decide to opt out of what you trained for. Go observe some blue collar laborers or physically handicapped veteran at the bar or the gym who feels like you have a winning lottery ticket in terms of brains and lifestyle. Talk to a med student or law student or two who will have 400k debt by the time training is over and is probably considering some pathetic PSLF job for that very reason.

You will likely realize it's not bad after all. You can find a way shout to yourself "suck it up, buttercup" in a palatable way.

Tony Robbins talks and wrote a lot on this over the years. There are YT videos and TED talks and such. You have mentally made medicine into a Robbins class 2 experience... you need to get it back to class 1 (at least most of the time):

https://selfmastery.blog/2018/03/06/...of-experience/ (Robbins principle of class 1 through 4 experiences)

Grant Cardone preaches the same stuff: get up earlier than most, look better than most... you will feel good, and results will usually be good. You can fake it til you make it if you need to, but start by getting some new duds or accessories to boost your ego by dressing better, getting up earlier, working out more (so you sleep better), repeat, repeat. Don't knock it til you try it. I have been doing it for years (well, the waking up earlier than 95% of docs part is not really optional... but the fitness, style, etc are... and they definitely help).

[snowcanyon]

This is just a case of how you perceive your career and your work. Nothing more, nothing less. It is up to you if you want to pay a therapist or some doc who likely failed at clinical medicine themselves... you will ultimately have to weather these problems of adjusting your mental frame, creating self-motivation, and engineering self-satisfaction time and time again.

It helps to take a break (even a long weekend), clear your schedule, and think on it. I have done this (mandated it) for more than a couple of burnt out surgical fellows, usually because they are getting very short with staff to the point where I feel they may make a negative mark on their career despite all of their work to that point. On your pondering retreat, consider that:
you make more than 90pct of folks,
consider your work helps people,
consider that the work helps keep your mind engaged,
and you help put food on the table for your support staff also.
It is not such a bad deal, huh? Mainly consider that you very likely will NOT find a better paying or more enriching alternative. Also consider how many more years you will likely have to work if you go part time, non-clinical... or how much you will have to lower your family's standards of living and travel if you decide to opt out of what you trained for. Go observe some blue collar laborers or physically handicapped veteran at the bar or the gym who feels like you have a winning lottery ticket in terms of brains and lifestyle. Talk to a med student or law student or two who will have 400k debt by the time training is over and is probably considering some pathetic PSLF job for that very reason.

You will likely realize it's not bad after all. You can find a way shout to yourself "suck it up, buttercup" in a palatable way.

Tony Robbins talks and wrote a lot on this over the years. There are YT videos and TED talks and such. You have mentally made medicine into a Robbins class 2 experience... you need to get it back to class 1 (at least most of the time):

https://selfmastery.blog/2018/03/06/...of-experience/ (Robbins principle of class 1 through 4 experiences)

Grant Cardone preaches the same stuff: get up earlier than most, look better than most... you will feel good, and results will usually be good. You can fake it til you make it if you need to, but start by getting some new duds or accessories to boost your ego by dressing better, getting up earlier, working out more (so you sleep better), repeat, repeat. Don't knock it til you try it. I have been doing it for years (well, the waking up earlier than 95% of docs part is not really optional... but the fitness, style, etc are... and they definitely help).

These are all great points and speak to several things I've been mulling over- I appreciate the thoughtful comment.

I'm not sure my particular corner of medicine (EM) actually helps that many people as it's practiced where I currently work. And there's a lot of abuse in EM, especially where I work, and we are not well-remunerated for what we do AT ALL.

My guess is the conclusion I will come to (we are basically at FIRE now, other half wants to work 4 more years) will be to cut down to 7 shifts a month (a perk of my job) and disengage as much as possible, spend more time on myself and more money on myself, and continue investing in real estate and equities. I don't think I want to build a business, and I def don't have any interest in working for another megacorp.

Thank you.

[jfoxcpacfp]

If I could tag on with what I think is the obvious recommendation for some, a solid financial plan from an experienced planner who can provide an unbiased perspective may be extremely helpful. For example, if you are dissatisfied and thinking you need to work another 10 years and find out you are actually FI and can slowly begin unwinding by making Sind implementing some specific financial changes is amazingly liberating. I’ve seen it happen and it is why I do what I do. There are some excellent planners who have doctor-specific experience in the Recommended Advisors section.

(Embarrassingly, just saw that our firm is at the top of the list today, this was not planned and we’re currently closed to new clients.)