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  • #46
    Originally posted by Dewangski1 View Post
    This covers some of it: https://youtu.be/mQPjKSVe1tQ

    But basically, life is easier with money.
    And, that's what I want: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CeWjEYhk7Xo
    Erstwhile Dance Theatre of Dayton performer cum bellhop. Carried (many) bags for a lovely and gracious 59 yo Cyd Charisse. (RIP) Hosted epic company parties after Friday night rehearsals.

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    • #47
      Originally posted by VentAlarm View Post
      but I suspect I will trust them to do good infinitely more than any nonprofit
      I don't know, man. Have you really never met children of extremely wealthy parents who are just overall terrible, entitled, generally useless people? It happens quite a lot and one reason people don't like generational wealth is that they don't want to inadvertently turn their own kids into anything remotely resembling that.

      If you really never have met such people first hand, consider watching Succession on HBO. Obviously, it's fictionalized, but there are people in real life who are almost exactly like Logan's kids. The people who created the show captured that perfectly. Obviously the wealth isn't the only reason they turned out that way, but it was a necessary condition.

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      • #48
        Originally posted by CM View Post
        And this is what the kids may want: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yYvkICbTZIQ

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        • #49
          Originally posted by Otolith View Post
          F you money

          So that if someone or something at my job ever makes me do something I really don't want to do I can say F you and walk away.

          (if you don't like swear words "F you" = Freedom)
          Exactly, but for me “F” doesn’t = freedom.

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          • #50
            Originally posted by AR View Post

            I don't know, man. Have you really never met children of extremely wealthy parents who are just overall terrible, entitled, generally useless people? It happens quite a lot and one reason people don't like generational wealth is that they don't want to inadvertently turn their own kids into anything remotely resembling that.

            There are as many entitled, useless kids of poor, middle class parents as well as the rich but paycheck to paycheck parents as there are from wealthy parents. I know many kids of 2 doctor wealthy couples whose kids are extremely well behaved, polite, respectful and at the same time want to do well in life and help the downtrodden. Wanting to have money and having some money does not mean they are useless. The only difference I see is that they have decent Hondas or hand me down older Lexuses and Mercedes.

            The taking away of wealth by the government or other entities is spouted by people who have had all the things they wanted when they were growing up - Bill Gates, Zuckerburg and even the crusty old Buffett. Yet they want the government to decide how others should mange their generational wealth. For every Paris Hilton there are daughters of Walton and Disney who have done a ton of charitable work with their wealth and are not spoiled brats. And last I heard, Melinda Gates had said FU to Bill about his wanting to give only $10M to each of their children and set up trust funds for them well in excess of that amount.

            Want to give it to Charity, do it. Want to give all to your heirs do it. Or something in between. Your choice.

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            • #51
              Originally posted by AR View Post

              I don't know, man. Have you really never met children of extremely wealthy parents who are just overall terrible, entitled, generally useless people? It happens quite a lot and one reason people don't like generational wealth is that they don't want to inadvertently turn their own kids into anything remotely resembling that.

              If you really never have met such people first hand, consider watching Succession on HBO. Obviously, it's fictionalized, but there are people in real life who are almost exactly like Logan's kids. The people who created the show captured that perfectly. Obviously the wealth isn't the only reason they turned out that way, but it was a necessary condition.
              True. It certainly starts right at birth and the upbringing there on. The stoping of Generation wealth transfer (inheritance) does very little on learned behavior besides ones last FU to a spoiled generation probably in their 40s.

              If one is truly interested in avoiding sparing the rod, there would be no suburban living or nice vacations, clothes, phones, cars, and everything that.comes with wealth.

              The best way to win, is not to play the game. --Name this 80s movie!

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              • #52
                Originally posted by Kamban View Post


                There are as many entitled, useless kids of poor, middle class parents as well as the rich but paycheck to paycheck parents as there are from wealthy parents.
                I agree. I don't know if there is a true correlation between wealth of the parents and the awfulness of the kids. I think it has more to do with the parents than the money.

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                • #53
                  I have known a lot of kids from upper middle class and some from truly wealthy families. Overwhelmingly, they are healthy, hard working and productive members of society.

                  Some inherited a lot but are trying to make as much more as they can- hedge fund analysts, Big Law partners...

                  Others use the freedom to work in far lower income fields where they think they can contribute- elementary education, social work...

                  Some are in between -docs, clinical psychologists, college professors
                  ​​​​​
                  My sample is not at all constructed to be representative but it is better than watching fiction and pretending it is real.

                  Actual data say that kids who grow up in higher income families have higher earned incomes as adults. If the lazy do-nothing trust fund baby stereotype describes any real people, they are a small minority of children of the wealthy.

                  I work because I think what I do is useful.

                  It is extremely interesting and I hate being bored.

                  I save because I have the stuff I want and it would be a waste of money to buy something I would rather not have just because I could pay for it. Or borrow enough money to pay for it.

                  I hate wasting money. True moral revulsion. Which is why I am often baffled at the trouble people will bring on themselves overextending to purchase junk they would be better off without.

                  I do not equate "enjoying life" with "spending money". Most of the things that I find deeply gratifying are cheap, free, or I get paid to do them.

                  We give to charity but we expect to leave most or all of our money to our kids and grandchildren. It is highly likely are they will be better off because of it.


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                  • #54
                    Originally posted by afan View Post
                    ​​​​​
                    My sample is not at all constructed to be representative but it is better than watching fiction and pretending it is real.
                    Who's doing that? This might come as a shocker to you, but other people have different samples. I've encountered plenty of spoiled ones. Even I wouldn't say they are the majority in my own experience, but it happens a lot in my sample.

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                    • #55
                      Originally posted by Kamban View Post


                      There are as many entitled, useless kids of poor, middle class parents as well as the rich but paycheck to paycheck parents as there are from wealthy parents. I know many kids of 2 doctor wealthy couples whose kids are extremely well behaved, polite, respectful and at the same time want to do well in life and help the downtrodden. Wanting to have money and having some money does not mean they are useless. The only difference I see is that they have decent Hondas or hand me down older Lexuses and Mercedes.

                      The taking away of wealth by the government or other entities is spouted by people who have had all the things they wanted when they were growing up - Bill Gates, Zuckerburg and even the crusty old Buffett. Yet they want the government to decide how others should mange their generational wealth. For every Paris Hilton there are daughters of Walton and Disney who have done a ton of charitable work with their wealth and are not spoiled brats. And last I heard, Melinda Gates had said FU to Bill about his wanting to give only $10M to each of their children and set up trust funds for them well in excess of that amount.

                      Want to give it to Charity, do it. Want to give all to your heirs do it. Or something in between. Your choice.
                      You (and I guess vent alarm) are conflating two separate things.

                      1. A lot of wealth can spoil a kid (The important word here is "can". It s not a certainty.)

                      2. The government should take away that wealth for that reason.

                      I think #1, but I don't think #2. And for the life of me I can't understand why anyone would assume that I would think that.

                      I don't want the anyone to take my money away. But at the same time I don't want to give my kids too much, especially too soon. All else being equal, I think that they will end up better if they have the same upbringing, but I don't give them as much as I could. This seems like the least controversial position imaginable. Especially on here.

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                      • #56
                        Originally posted by Kamban View Post


                        There are as many entitled, useless kids of poor, middle class parents as well as the rich but paycheck to paycheck parents as there are from wealthy parents.
                        I also wanted to address this part just in case it wasn't obvious what a ridiculous comparison this is. There are not "as many entitled, useless, kids of poor, middle class parents as well". There are more. Lots more. When we're talking about generational wealth we are talking about not just the top 1%, but more likely some fraction of the top 1%. So are the entitled, useless kids of the poor and middle class ~100 fold more prevalent? I don't think so and I'd be quite surprised if anyone experienced that.

                        On top of that you have to add in the fact that the kids from the generational wealth cohort have every tool needed not to be such people. If someone grew up poor in an area with terrible public education, how surprising is it really that they would end up as an adult with few useful, marketable skills.

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                        • #57
                          Originally posted by CordMcNally View Post

                          I agree. I don't know if there is a true correlation between wealth of the parents and the awfulness of the kids. I think it has more to do with the parents than the money.
                          Not sure regarding wealth but in my experience the 2 doctor parents kids were generally more entitled/ thought they were already docs much more so than average med student. This is also coming from someone who will produce two doc parent kids one day.

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                          • #58
                            Originally posted by Panscan View Post

                            Not sure regarding wealth but in my experience the 2 doctor parents kids were generally more entitled/ thought they were already docs much more so than average med student. This is also coming from someone who will produce two doc parent kids one day.
                            How were their parents and were they present parents? I can see two doctor parents not being as present as other parents.

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                            • #59
                              Originally posted by AR View Post

                              I don't know, man. Have you really never met children of extremely wealthy parents who are just overall terrible, entitled, generally useless people? It happens quite a lot and one reason people don't like generational wealth is that they don't want to inadvertently turn their own kids into anything remotely resembling that.

                              If you really never have met such people first hand, consider watching Succession on HBO. Obviously, it's fictionalized, but there are people in real life who are almost exactly like Logan's kids. The people who created the show captured that perfectly. Obviously the wealth isn't the only reason they turned out that way, but it was a necessary condition.
                              My late father worked in private wealth management; his minimum AUM for him to work with you at the firm he was employed at was $10m. That said, the vast majority of his clients had AUM in the $100m-$2500m range. He told me sanitized stories of one of his wealthiest clients (family patriarch was in his 80s at the time) whose kids were fighting tooth and nail over $2.5m, really a pittance compared to the family's overall net worth. If we assume for the sake of argument that money gives you power, and power changes you (https://www.theatlantic.com/health/a...-mind/277638/; https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine...damage/528711/), then money can essentially function like a drug.

                              Now, as far as why I save: I save so that I am in control of my own destiny. We live in a country that requires individuals to take charge of their own destiny; no "system" is there to save you when the SPAM hits the fan. Systems that were imperfect, but generally worked well (like pensions), are long gone. White collar employment is becoming as precarious as some lower level work, so I had better have resources to support me for the inevitable day my boss says "your services are no longer required."

                              I save for my own security, becasue I learned from my late father's issues what happens if you live large, but don't have much in the bank.

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                              • #60
                                Originally posted by AR View Post

                                Who's doing that? This might come as a shocker to you, but other people have different samples. I've encountered plenty of spoiled ones. Even I wouldn't say they are the majority in my own experience, but it happens a lot in my sample.
                                The person who suggested watching a fictional TV show to see the putative risks of leaving money to children.

                                As for samples, real life is better than fiction. As I indicated, there are abundant data showing that children of higher income families earn more than children of average income families

                                As one of many examples, the median income of families whose kids become doctors is about double the national median.

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