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  • #91
    Originally posted by Nysoz View Post
    It's worth having the discussion how to implement it if/when it's needed.
    The danger of having that discussion is once you start it, a segment of the population will insist that the time for UBI is now, disregarding all the evidence that points the other way. Who does not like free money, especially if they don't have to pay for it.

    We had a discussion in my family on whether a dog was needed or not and its pros and cons and before it could be threshed out a vote was taken, I was outvoted and a puppy arrived in our house three weeks later. Never have a discussion where you know the outcome will not be based on facts, but emotions.

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    • #92
      Originally posted by Kamban View Post
      Who does not like free money, especially if they don't have to pay for it.
      Yes.

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      • #93
        Originally posted by Lithium View Post

        Well, I’m not really much of an apologist for high tax states, but if life decisions were solely about the math, we’d all be living with roommates in North Dakota.
        Ha. No doubt. All I'm saying is that these state taxes weren't hidden when one made the choice to work/live there. And assuredly they weighed that along with other issues re: quality of life, etc. No reason all taxpayers should be subsidizing that decision or making the high tax states not have to realize the full effect of their tax/spend policies.

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        • #94
          Originally posted by Lithium View Post

          Well, I’m not really much of an apologist for high tax states, but if life decisions were solely about the math, we’d all be living with roommates in North Dakota.
          I have not lived without a roommate since high school. Well, not exactly a roommate. Own a house , find a housemate or two. Never ever considered North Dakota.
          Wyoming and South Dakota. I think my wife would veto that.

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          • #95
            Originally posted by Kamban View Post

            The danger of having that discussion is once you start it, a segment of the population will insist that the time for UBI is now, disregarding all the evidence that points the other way. Who does not like free money, especially if they don't have to pay for it.

            We had a discussion in my family on whether a dog was needed or not and its pros and cons and before it could be threshed out a vote was taken, I was outvoted and a puppy arrived in our house three weeks later. Never have a discussion where you know the outcome will not be based on facts, but emotions.
            I think you should at least get 2 or 3 votes. Vote early. Vote often!

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            • #96
              Originally posted by Kamban View Post

              The difference is that Bezos and Musk are not paid an income of $1B per year for which they pay $500M+ in taxes each year. Their income is probably less than mine. They get a lot of perks for some of which they pay taxes, most are on the company's dime. Their wealth is all i their stock value which has shot up thousand fold or more over the years. That is why they are still playing. BTW, Bezos has retired from running the company and is just the chairman of the board.



              We have had this same discussion over the past thousands of years. OMG, the wheel has been invented, the labor force will be not needed. OMG, the steam engine is gong to replace all the horse buggy and its supporting staff. OMG, the gasoline engine will replace all farm laborers and all horse buggies and all loom workers. What will they do. Call Andrew Yang and let him propose UBI for all those horse buggy workers and farm laborers and others too.

              Stop crying wolf. Let us see what happens. People cannot expect to remain the same. Change will come. The next generation will be trained differently and the current generation of untrainable workers will soon die. Life is mortal and only thing certain in life is change. Let us see what happens before we jump the gun on free money handouts.
              I wouldn't compare the steam engine/gas to robots/AI. One augments people, the other one replaces them

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              • #97
                Originally posted by Kamban View Post

                The danger of having that discussion is once you start it, a segment of the population will insist that the time for UBI is now, disregarding all the evidence that points the other way. Who does not like free money, especially if they don't have to pay for it.

                We had a discussion in my family on whether a dog was needed or not and its pros and cons and before it could be threshed out a vote was taken, I was outvoted and a puppy arrived in our house three weeks later. Never have a discussion where you know the outcome will not be based on facts, but emotions.
                the "free money" gets doled out regardless if you call it UBI or something else. Everyone huffs and puffs about it but the target demographic in current society are going to be poor and racking up ED bills, on additional welfare programs and costing taxpayers money in a variety of other ways. It's not necessarily a net increase of spending on welfare.



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                • #98
                  Originally posted by Lithium View Post

                  Well, I’m not really much of an apologist for high tax states, but if life decisions were solely about the math, we’d all be living with roommates in North Dakota.
                  You didn't live in North Dakota during the oil boom, did you? Not too long ago there were national stories about long time residents getting priced out.

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                  • #99
                    Originally posted by Panscan View Post

                    I wouldn't compare the steam engine/gas to robots/AI. One augments people, the other one replaces them
                    Steam and gas engines definitely replaced people.

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                    • Originally posted by Panscan View Post

                      the "free money" gets doled out regardless if you call it UBI or something else. Everyone huffs and puffs about it but the target demographic in current society are going to be poor and racking up ED bills, on additional welfare programs and costing taxpayers money in a variety of other ways. It's not necessarily a net increase of spending on welfare.
                      “It is not necessarily an increase of spending on welfare.”

                      Ok, please explain how.

                      You are adding an expense.

                      Is there something else you will remove/ cut?

                      Like the BBB thing that costs nothing.

                      Is it perpetual motion that speeds up without the additional input of energy?

                      Something from nothing?

                      Or does it get paid for by taxing high income earners more?

                      None of us is anti-helping people.

                      Some of us just agree with you that there are programs already in place. Many of which are ineffective and inefficient.

                      We would rather focus on fixing/improving & studying (by independent people) what is working and what needs to go.

                      You cannot just add UBI to all the other wasteful spending and expect us to cheer.

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                      • Originally posted by CordMcNally View Post

                        Steam and gas engines definitely replaced people.
                        And horses. Lots less poo in the street.
                        Last edited by Tangler; 11-01-2021, 04:11 PM.

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