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  • Vaccine trial

    Would you enroll your children in moderna vaccine trial ? We are strong advocates for vaccination and took it as soon as it was available

    kids are good about masking etc

    The reports about myocarditis are making me think .saw in news that feds are looking into it .

    if it is me or wife , would still do it . But when making decision for your kids , it is harder

  • #2
    Unfortunately I don’t think covid is ever going away, so everyone is eventually either going to get the vaccine or get covid. Even worse it looks like we may need to repeatedly get the vaccine or repeatedly get covid because immunity seems to be temporary.

    So I think the risks from moderna is lower than the risks associated with covid. Eventually I’m sure it will be approved for all age groups, although the dose might be different for very young kids. So yeah I’d enroll my kids.

    where do we sign up?

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    • #3
      I agree with Dusn, plus I doubt the myocarditis risk from the vaccine is any worse than the myocarditis risk from COVID (which has actually killed a few kids). I'd also opt for the trial.

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      • #4
        I wonder if eventually, given repeated immunizations or repeat infections, or both, the rates of serious side effects will go down so that it's profile looks more like any other respiratory virus.

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        • #5
          Would anyone like to postulate the mechanism of myocarditis? I have thoughts about it, but don't want to waste people's time.

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          • #6
            Originally posted by legobikes View Post
            I wonder if eventually, given repeated immunizations or repeat infections, or both, the rates of serious side effects will go down so that it's profile looks more like any other respiratory virus.
            I am sure that will be the case. The problem is that we have no idea of how long it will take for that to happen.

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            • #7
              Originally posted by burritos View Post
              Would anyone like to postulate the mechanism of myocarditis? I have thoughts about it, but don't want to waste people's time.
              Speculate away!

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              • #8
                Originally posted by Dusn View Post
                Unfortunately I don’t think covid is ever going away, so everyone is eventually either going to get the vaccine or get covid....
                Most people will actually do both.

                Long term follow-up is a mofo.

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                • #9
                  I tried to enroll my 10 year old in one of the trials, but the closest location was >500 miles away. Didn’t seem worth it.

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                  • #10
                    I've tried to enroll my kids in Pfizer and Moderna's trials, and they haven't gotten picked. The closest study site was hundreds of miles away, though.
                    I was in the Pfizer trial myself.

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                    • #11
                      We tried to enroll ours in Pfizer without luck. I think there are risks either way, but I think the risks of COVID at this point are higher (although still low). Unfortunately we live in a current hot-bed, so I'm anxious for the vaccines for my kids (in hopes they get vaccinated before getting COVID).

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                      • #12
                        "Pfizer is running separate trials for its COVID-19 vaccine in ages 5 to 11, ages 2 to under 5, and ages 6 months to under 2 years. All age groups are receiving the same vaccine, but the size of the dose might be different. Typically, the younger the age group, the smaller the dose."
                        • ages 5 to 11 definitely
                        • ages 2 to under 5 maybe to doubtful. depends on daycare arrangements
                        • ages 6 months to under 2 years doubtful
                        Personal thoughts based primarily on the exposure the child would have in daily living. Can't keep the school age kids away from exposure.

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by artemis View Post

                          Speculate away!
                          Funny, when I chit chat with my MD friends, whenever I bring up the topics like this, my clinician friends could care less and they look at me like I'm a conspiracy nutcase, but my pathologist buddy delves in with high interest(he's a UCSD prof).

                          We know viruses have always coexisted with mutlicellular organisms. We also know that many viruses utilize mucous membranes for reproduction and secrections/aerosolizations for spread. Nothing new here. That is the extent of its goal. It has no utility to go beyond that and kill the host. In nature when cellular xenophagy(a subset of autophagy) is functioning properly, cells recycle viruses so they don't go beyond the mucous membranes. That's why some healthy individuals never get sick, not because they necessarily have a good immune system.

                          So my speculative narrative presumes that viremia is a thing. Vast majority of times, it is clinically insignificant and escapes medical consequence due to immunity. BUT when xenophagic flux is impaired, viral reproduction is able to reach exponential reproductive escape velocity. Now you're getting superviremia entering all histologic zones where virus is not meant to go.

                          How do you have poor autophagy? Insulin resistance is the vital gearshift that slows down this vital cellular process. How do you have insulin resistance, you have a lifetime of eating processed carbs/refined sugar/seed oil mutliple times a day with a likely baseline of sugary drinks/snacks. Makes sense cause autophagy is a recycling cellular feature. If you are always in a nutrient rich state, there is no need to recycle anything, and high insulin halts this(it also halts fat metabolism, but that's something different).The problem is this recycling state recycles pathogens. No recycling of pathogen=pathogen spread. Show me someone young with myocarditis, guillain barre, ,ARDs and there is probably 99% correlation rate that person is insulin resistant.

                          We all already know this, it's just that we have it all backwards. Metaphorically we are all trying to put out crazy fires everywhere with not enough firemen and water. However, patients at the individual level can reduce the temperature, reduce the wind, and bring in the marine layer, by ceasing to eat processed foods. And when things don't go perfectly, clinicians are subject to difficult work conditions, criticisms, and even lawsuits. This is not tenable and it is only getting worse, with/without COVID. Sorry, off my soap box.

                          BTW, I'm not sure how this is related to the vaccine causing myocarditis, the speculation could be that nucleophagy could also be impaired(the autophagy of nucleotides) and some of the mRNA vax reaches all the way to cardiac tissue. If the cardiac tissue starts making spike protein, some of those cardiomyocytes will be expunged.

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                          • #14
                            Burritos- are you saying obesity is the reason why people die of COVID?

                            I can agree to that.

                            We've talked about getting our 7 year old vaccinated when available. We are most likely going to do it, since he has no history of allergic reactions or other conditions.

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Brains428 View Post
                              Burritos- are you saying obesity is the reason why people die of COVID?

                              I can agree to that.

                              We've talked about getting our 7 year old vaccinated when available. We are most likely going to do it, since he has no history of allergic reactions or other conditions.
                              Obese people eating a western diet likely are insulin resistant. Plus from what I understand, excess fat can be pro inflammatory. I'm not sure if adipocytes are a reservoir for viral replication, but that seems plausible.

                              Nonetheless, you could be TOFI(Thin outside fat inside) and be insulin resistant and be subject to similar metabolic/cellular risks. I'm a bit reluctant to say that the actual fat is the problem, but certainly it is a corollary proxy.

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