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Gift to the Mega-Rich?

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  • #16
    Maybe if someone would actually do something about the cost of medicine, we could get rid of some of these taxes.  Until then, I'm happy to pay them for people with less means for healthcare.  I don't need a thank you.  I don't need a trophy for paying taxes.  Social contract in full effect.

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    • #17




      Maybe if someone would actually do something about the cost of medicine, we could get rid of some of these taxes.  Until then, I’m happy to pay them for people with less means for healthcare.  I don’t need a thank you.  I don’t need a trophy for paying taxes.  Social contract in full effect.
      Click to expand...


      I'd have far less of a problem paying for those things if research showed that it actually made a difference in health.  The two best studies to date - The Rand health insurance experiment, and the Oregon Medicaid study showed two things: that increased cost sharing led to decreased utilization of care without effect on health, and that giving Medicaid to folks doesn't improve health metrics such as DM, HTN, etc.  The only marginal effect on the latter was with mental health improvement.  This information, combined with the fact that most of our health is determined by healthy behaviors and not the medical system, I find it grossly inefficient to throw more money at a system that is the second most inefficient segment of our economy (2nd only to...you guessed it...our government) while demonstrating no significant benefit of health improvement.

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      • #18



         This information, combined with the fact that most of our health is determined by healthy behaviors and not the medical system, I find it grossly inefficient to throw more money at a system that is the second most inefficient segment of our economy (2nd only to…you guessed it…our government) while demonstrating no significant benefit of health improvement.

        Click to expand...


        I would contend that health is provided by modern plumbing (water treatment and sewage systems), then availability of sufficient calories, then vaccinations, then individual healthy behaviors, then the rest of the medical system.

        When you think about the four horsemen of the apocalypse, first world residents pretty much have no risk of famine or plague and very low mortality from war since 1945.  One could argue that plumbers and industrial farming** have saved more lives than cardiology, oncology, neurology, and a host of other advanced specialities combined.

        Sure, it's nice that we can treat various conditions and ailments in our 70's and later.  A necessary precondition for cancer or cardiac treatment in your 80's is living past your 30's and 40's.

        ** One caveat on industrial farming.  It is possible to have too much of a good thing.  Three generations ago the poor didn't get enough to eat.  Now obesity is a disease of the poor.

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        • #19


          ** One caveat on industrial farming. It is possible to have too much of a good thing. Three generations ago the poor didn’t get enough to eat. Now obesity is a disease of the poor.
          Click to expand...


          We have gone from insufficient calories to empty calories. The poor find it easier and cheaper to get their 2000 cals from Double burger and french fries than from fruits, vegetables and healthy grains.

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          • #20
            I'm not really that fiscally conservative. I just think that high earners in the $200-700k range should not be treated like CEOs by the tax code.

            Would like to see either a flat income tax or many more brackets. Not sure we should be starting the 40% tax bracket where 2 full time FPs working hard could get.

            It is an absurd trick to have med/law/dental/vet school be so weakly subsidized and then not allow people with moderately high incomes to deduct student loan interest or heck, even their entire student loan payment. Absolutely no one would design this system if starting from scratch.

            Mostly a Bernie bro b/c we've really allowed corporations to take over America. The amount of power and influence a few wealthy people wield in america is simply not sustainable.

            Comment


            • #21
              Where should the highest tax bracket start? Right above where my income is!

               

              It's very hard to discuss this topic without letting our biases and personal interests get in the way. I stand to save at least $20k/year if the Obamacare taxes are repealed. This certainly affects how I feel about the GOP plan, but on the other, to have an additional 22 million uninsured people in the US is pretty difficult to reconcile.

              Comment


              • #22




                Not sure how you can be fiscally conservative and socially progressive in the Bernie sense.  That’s the opposite of fiscal conservatism.  You can be fiscally conservative and socially progressive to the extent that you support equal treatments, rights, etc.  Indeed that is libertarian.  But once you go down the dark path of deeming everything a “right” it lends support to new programs paid for by someone else’s money, subject to the whimsical notion of fairness (which doesn’t seem to ever bear resemblance to a stable integer).  And since our government is the least efficient segment of our economy, furthering wasteful spending with new programs, it defies logic that Bernie’s brand can overlap with fiscal conservatism.

                 
                Click to expand...


                I can't speak for anyone else, but it comes down to what is important to the individual.  A lot of people are one-issue voters, or simply see certain problems as larger than others.  They know they're going to pay big taxes regardless of who is in power.  Even under George Bush, the government rapidly grew far bigger than it ever was before.  Under Trump it seems like it's going to finally do some shrinking but a lot of these bills don't appear to be making any dramatic differences in the status quo.






                 
                Click to expand…


                A fiscally conservative social liberal should be a libertarian, but the party on offer seems to be full of wingnuts.
                Click to expand...


                That's the problem.  Gary Johnson isn't a true libertarian, he's just a loser who wanted to be in the spotlight and uses the libertarian party to do it.  And also, yeah, libertarian describes a huge spectrum of people, from normal people to professors to gutter punks, you name it.

                Comment


                • #23




                  Where should the highest tax bracket start? Right above where my income is!

                   

                  It’s very hard to discuss this topic without letting our biases and personal interests get in the way. I stand to save at least $20k/year if the Obamacare taxes are repealed. This certainly affects how I feel about the GOP plan, but on the other, to have an additional 22 million uninsured people in the US is pretty difficult to reconcile.
                  Click to expand...


                  To be fair, this is basically my position.  

                  No seriously, if we're not going to have a VAT or a flat tax, it's stupid to tax $500,000 at the same rate as $50,000,000.

                  Comment


                  • #24







                    Not sure how you can be fiscally conservative and socially progressive in the Bernie sense.  That’s the opposite of fiscal conservatism.  You can be fiscally conservative and socially progressive to the extent that you support equal treatments, rights, etc.  Indeed that is libertarian.  But once you go down the dark path of deeming everything a “right” it lends support to new programs paid for by someone else’s money, subject to the whimsical notion of fairness (which doesn’t seem to ever bear resemblance to a stable integer).  And since our government is the least efficient segment of our economy, furthering wasteful spending with new programs, it defies logic that Bernie’s brand can overlap with fiscal conservatism.

                     
                    Click to expand…


                    I can’t speak for anyone else, but it comes down to what is important to the individual.  A lot of people are one-issue voters, or simply see certain problems as larger than others.  They know they’re going to pay big taxes regardless of who is in power.  Even under George Bush, the government rapidly grew far bigger than it ever was before.  Under Trump it seems like it’s going to finally do some shrinking but a lot of these bills don’t appear to be making any dramatic differences in the status quo.






                     
                    Click to expand…


                    A fiscally conservative social liberal should be a libertarian, but the party on offer seems to be full of wingnuts.
                    Click to expand…


                    That’s the problem.  Gary Johnson isn’t a true libertarian, he’s just a loser who wanted to be in the spotlight and uses the libertarian party to do it.  And also, yeah, libertarian describes a huge spectrum of people, from normal people to professors to gutter punks, you name it.
                    Click to expand...


                    I'll take libertarians seriously when I meet one who isn't a successful white dude.

                    Also: there was a great Family Guy about this.

                    Comment


                    • #25










                      Not sure how you can be fiscally conservative and socially progressive in the Bernie sense.  That’s the opposite of fiscal conservatism.  You can be fiscally conservative and socially progressive to the extent that you support equal treatments, rights, etc.  Indeed that is libertarian.  But once you go down the dark path of deeming everything a “right” it lends support to new programs paid for by someone else’s money, subject to the whimsical notion of fairness (which doesn’t seem to ever bear resemblance to a stable integer).  And since our government is the least efficient segment of our economy, furthering wasteful spending with new programs, it defies logic that Bernie’s brand can overlap with fiscal conservatism.

                       
                      Click to expand…


                      I can’t speak for anyone else, but it comes down to what is important to the individual.  A lot of people are one-issue voters, or simply see certain problems as larger than others.  They know they’re going to pay big taxes regardless of who is in power.  Even under George Bush, the government rapidly grew far bigger than it ever was before.  Under Trump it seems like it’s going to finally do some shrinking but a lot of these bills don’t appear to be making any dramatic differences in the status quo.






                       
                      Click to expand…


                      A fiscally conservative social liberal should be a libertarian, but the party on offer seems to be full of wingnuts.
                      Click to expand…


                      That’s the problem.  Gary Johnson isn’t a true libertarian, he’s just a loser who wanted to be in the spotlight and uses the libertarian party to do it.  And also, yeah, libertarian describes a huge spectrum of people, from normal people to professors to gutter punks, you name it.
                      Click to expand…


                      I’ll take libertarians seriously when I meet one who isn’t a successful white dude.

                      Also: there was a great Family Guy about this.
                      Click to expand...


                      Be friends with more potheads

                      Comment


                      • #26







                        Where should the highest tax bracket start? Right above where my income is!

                         

                        It’s very hard to discuss this topic without letting our biases and personal interests get in the way. I stand to save at least $20k/year if the Obamacare taxes are repealed. This certainly affects how I feel about the GOP plan, but on the other, to have an additional 22 million uninsured people in the US is pretty difficult to reconcile.
                        Click to expand…


                        To be fair, this is basically my position.  ????

                        No seriously, if we’re not going to have a VAT or a flat tax, it’s stupid to tax $500,000 at the same rate as $50,000,000.
                        Click to expand...


                        But we already dont. If you make 50M/y its highly likely the effective tax rate is lower than the 500k person, which is a bit nutty.

                        There are a lot of interesting contradictions on these and all the healthcare related threads as in they dont make a lot of sense. We cant logically complain about insurance costs, champion dumping millions off insurance, and then complain about pay, these things are related. Yes, there exist a deep web of useless, barely legal and non value adding layers siphoning off money, but zero of the proposed things in the works address those. So I am acting as if they dont exist just like our legislators do.

                        High insurance costs fund your paychecks, and people falling off insurance is not great for it either. Yes, it could be far less cost and have higher pay, but that is not the system up for arguing, every lobbyist group shall get their cut.

                        Comment


                        • #27


                          Not sure how you can be fiscally conservative and socially progressive in the Bernie sense.
                          Click to expand...


                          I agree. That's why I wrote "liberal" rather than "progressive."
                          Erstwhile Dance Theatre of Dayton performer cum bellhop. Carried (many) bags for a lovely and gracious 59 yo Cyd Charisse. (RIP) Hosted epic company parties after Friday night rehearsals.

                          Comment


                          • #28







                            Not sure how you can be fiscally conservative and socially progressive in the Bernie sense.  That’s the opposite of fiscal conservatism.  You can be fiscally conservative and socially progressive to the extent that you support equal treatments, rights, etc.  Indeed that is libertarian.  But once you go down the dark path of deeming everything a “right” it lends support to new programs paid for by someone else’s money, subject to the whimsical notion of fairness (which doesn’t seem to ever bear resemblance to a stable integer).  And since our government is the least efficient segment of our economy, furthering wasteful spending with new programs, it defies logic that Bernie’s brand can overlap with fiscal conservatism.

                             
                            Click to expand…


                            I can’t speak for anyone else, but it comes down to what is important to the individual.  A lot of people are one-issue voters, or simply see certain problems as larger than others.  They know they’re going to pay big taxes regardless of who is in power.  Even under George Bush, the government rapidly grew far bigger than it ever was before.  Under Trump it seems like it’s going to finally do some shrinking but a lot of these bills don’t appear to be making any dramatic differences in the status quo.






                             
                            Click to expand…


                            A fiscally conservative social liberal should be a libertarian, but the party on offer seems to be full of wingnuts.
                            Click to expand…


                            That’s the problem.  Gary Johnson isn’t a true libertarian, he’s just a loser who wanted to be in the spotlight and uses the libertarian party to do it.  And also, yeah, libertarian describes a huge spectrum of people, from normal people to professors to gutter punks, you name it.
                            Click to expand...


                            I might be offended if I was a professor. :-)
                            Erstwhile Dance Theatre of Dayton performer cum bellhop. Carried (many) bags for a lovely and gracious 59 yo Cyd Charisse. (RIP) Hosted epic company parties after Friday night rehearsals.

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Yes, the CNN headline was poorly written...it should have been "Tax Cut for the Mega Rich" because that's what the Senate Republican health care bill is obviously about. The Senate Republican bill will do NOTHING to bring down premiums or improve health care. The CBO estimates 23 million people would lose health coverage...is a .9 % tax on earned income and 2.9 % tax on capital gains really that much of a burden for caring for the poor and the sick?

                              It also bothers me that Republicans are being so dishonest about the BetterCare  Reconciliation Act. It won't lower premiums as promised and people will lose coverage.

                              http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2017/06/defenses-of-senates-health-care-plan-pathetically-dishonest.html

                              Obviously I'm a liberal 

                              Comment


                              • #30




                                Yes, the CNN headline was poorly written…it should have been “Tax Cut for the Mega Rich” because that’s what the Senate Republican health care bill is obviously about

                                {...}

                                http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2017/06/defenses-of-senates-health-care-plan-pathetically-dishonest.html

                                Obviously I’m a liberal ????
                                Click to expand...


                                If you feel tax rates aren't high enough, you can always cut a check to the the General Fund of the U.S. Treasury for any amount that you feel you're being under-taxed.  You can send in extra money as an attending; you can even send in extra money as a med student!

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