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  • #31




    Great thread. To satisfy your state needs, all you need is:

     

    1. Sling. I’ve been very pleased w quality and content. Subscribe and they’ll throw in a free Roku.

    2. Get a Mohu leaf antenna:

    https://www.amazon.com/Mohu-Paper-thin-Reversible-Performance-MH-110598/dp/B00HSMK580

     

    Can add HBO, Netflix, Amazon, Hulu, etc on the Roku as desired.
    Click to expand...


    I didn't know about the free Roku. Will that work on any TV? (I bought mine in 2010.)
    Erstwhile Dance Theatre of Dayton performer cum bellhop. Carried (many) bags for a lovely and gracious 59 yo Cyd Charisse. (RIP) Hosted epic company parties after Friday night rehearsals.

    Comment


    • #32
      https://www.sling.com/devices/offers

       

      I believe most Roku models use a HDMI cable to connect, so if you have that you should A-OK.

      Comment


      • #33
        I've had SlingTV for the NBA Playoffs and thought it's streaming quality was 'okay' over the Apple TV. However, the ESPN-containing package only has CNN  :|  and few other channels I care about, so i'm cancelling it.  I do like that about them tho--can pick up and cancel at will, with no penalty.

        I'm a huge Big Ten (basketball, football) fan, so I'm considering going with Playstation Vue in the fall for the extra football coverage.  The $35 package includes ESPNs, FS, BTN, MLBnetwork, NFL network, as well as Foxnews, Foxbusiness, and USA ---my sling package only has ESPN of these, which is why i'm leaving.

         

        Comment


        • #34
          Phantasos -- I think you bring up a great point.

          My public persona as a blogger is me. I'm a bit argumentative and stubborn. I'm not putting on airs or hiding. You are welcome to read my writing. I'm writing for self-expression and enjoyment, not to create an online persona.

          While I am learning to tone things down a little online, that has nothing to do with blogging and more to do with the fact that being online leads to dumb arguments that would be resolved in 5 seconds in person.

          Regarding this whole morality thing -- I really think your analogies are inaccurate.

          Siphoning gas is stealing from the person who paid for the product. Using a password from someone who gives it willingly is not the same. In fact, HBO has been aware of this phenomenon for a long time and has intentionally NOT cracked down on it. While they made HBO Now as a response, they've not attempted to stop it. I'll check the ToS -- maybe they specifically prohibit password sharing to people who don't live at the billing address, I don't know, but I doubt they care the way you think they do.

          If that same friend comes to my house and wants use HBO Go on my TV, is that an ethics issue? Is that illegal?

          I also think it's fundamentally different than downloading something from BitTorrent.

          I let friends use passwords of mine as well for different things. My mom uses my Netflix account at her house. It's mostly to put on cartoons for when my kids are over there, but I am guessing she may have watched something on there once. She can afford the $9/month, but does that violate your rules?

          I let a friend use my ESPN.com account to read insider baseball articles of interest to him. He's a doctor and makes roughly twice what I make. I really don't care. Same reason I would let him borrow a tool from my garage even though he could go buy one.

          Or here's another example. In my ER we can't "give" or dispense meds for home used that are used once in the ER but have leftover, such as an eye ointment (albuterol being an exception).

          I've let families take home a bottle of antibiotic eye drops for home use that would otherwise go in the trash, instead of making them find a pharmacy and pay for a new bottle. I'm pretty sure that falls under the same zone of ethics as password sharing.

          I have friends who make more money than me and friends that make way less than me and who have doctors and insurance. I sometimes give them medical advice for free or even examine their kids for free instead of making them go to the ER, and on occasion I save them hundreds of dollars. Is that substantially different than the concept of giving me a password to watch GoT online? What if they bought the DVDs and then lent them to me? Is it bad when it's streaming but okay when it's a hard copy? Maybe their is a technical difference in the law, but I think the "lay" person views that the same.

          If I was a mechanic I would share my auto knowledge with my friends, even if they made more than me. And I would still let me mom use my Netflix password.

          I think your view of making salary and ethics the focus of this is off base. To me this is a discussion about ownership rights and sharing and paying it forward.

          Great discussion -- this is why I enjoy being online!
          An alt-brown look at medicine, money, faith, & family
          www.RogueDadMD.com

          Comment


          • #35




            Phantasos — I think you bring up a great point.

            My public persona as a blogger is me. I’m a bit argumentative and stubborn. I’m not putting on airs or hiding. You are welcome to read my writing. I’m writing for self-expression and enjoyment, not to create an online persona.

            While I am learning to tone things down a little online, that has nothing to do with blogging and more to do with the fact that being online leads to dumb arguments that would be resolved in 5 seconds in person.

            Regarding this whole morality thing — I really think your analogies are inaccurate.

            Siphoning gas is stealing from the person who paid for the product. Using a password from someone who gives it willingly is not the same. In fact, HBO has been aware of this phenomenon for a long time and has intentionally NOT cracked down on it. While they made HBO Now as a response, they’ve not attempted to stop it. I’ll check the ToS — maybe they specifically prohibit password sharing to people who don’t live at the billing address, I don’t know, but I doubt they care the way you think they do.

            If that same friend comes to my house and wants use HBO Go on my TV, is that an ethics issue? Is that illegal?

            I also think it’s fundamentally different than downloading something from BitTorrent.

            I let friends use passwords of mine as well for different things. My mom uses my Netflix account at her house. It’s mostly to put on cartoons for when my kids are over there, but I am guessing she may have watched something on there once. She can afford the $9/month, but does that violate your rules?

            I let a friend use my ESPN.com account to read insider baseball articles of interest to him. He’s a doctor and makes roughly twice what I make. I really don’t care. Same reason I would let him borrow a tool from my garage even though he could go buy one.

            Or here’s another example. In my ER we can’t “give” or dispense meds for home used that are used once in the ER but have leftover, such as an eye ointment (albuterol being an exception).

            I’ve let families take home a bottle of antibiotic eye drops for home use that would otherwise go in the trash, instead of making them find a pharmacy and pay for a new bottle. I’m pretty sure that falls under the same zone of ethics as password sharing.

            I have friends who make more money than me and friends that make way less than me and who have doctors and insurance. I sometimes give them medical advice for free or even examine their kids for free instead of making them go to the ER, and on occasion I save them hundreds of dollars. Is that substantially different than the concept of giving me a password to watch GoT online? What if they bought the DVDs and then lent them to me? Is it bad when it’s streaming but okay when it’s a hard copy? Maybe their is a technical difference in the law, but I think the “lay” person views that the same.

            If I was a mechanic I would share my auto knowledge with my friends, even if they made more than me. And I would still let me mom use my Netflix password.

            I think your view of making salary and ethics the focus of this is off base. To me this is a discussion about ownership rights and sharing and paying it forward.

            Great discussion — this is why I enjoy being online!
            Click to expand...


            I agree with you that the focus on salary is off base, but I think your examples are, too.  Here's why: The victim when you use someone else's identity to access entertainment for which you have not paid isn't the person who gave permission to use their identity (as it is in your examples); it is all the producers/directors/actors/set designers/animators/lighting crew/camera crew/commentators/etc. who are compensated, whether directly or indirectly, based on how much their product sells.  I agree with you that this discussion is absolutely about ownership rights.  You have not paid to OWN the product for which you pay a subscription fee.  You have paid for the right to ACCESS it.  If you don't believe me, go read your TOS.

            In other words, you may think yourself a magnanimous mechanic.  But, in this case, you don't OWN the shop, the lift, or the tools; you have ACCESS to them only by virtue of your employment agreement with the shop.  So, enriching your own friends by allowing them access to the shop to fix their cars helps you and them at the detriment of the shop owner (of course, that analogy doesn't work all that well;  since intellectual/artistic property that is effortlessly reproducible without limit is of a fundamentally different sort than physical property that is not reproducible, I suppose no analogy between the two will ever achieve very much).

            Comment


            • #36
              Ticker

              http://www.slate.com/articles/technology/future_tense/2016/07/is_it_really_illegal_to_share_your_netflix_passwor d.html

              https://www.google.com/amp/s/techcrunch.com/2016/07/11/psst-its-still-okay-to-share-your-netflix-password/amp/

              Take a look at those.

              I think you make fair points. I do think this is fundamentally different than something like pirating off Tor. Legally and from a business standpoint, it isn't as black and white a state you paint it.

              In our discussion, someone has paid for streaming rights. These companies have intentionally set it up to make it easy to stream across devices and location without hassle. They aren't dumb. The market wants to stream everywhere, and they've put in no effort to prevent password sharing. That in and of itself doesn't justify anything, but I think it's an argument against the idea that they view it as a problem. I hear artists complain about Pandora giving free streaming to everyone and them. It being paid. I never hear them complain about password sharing amongst Netflix subscribers.

              They could do something like require 2 factor authentication for new devices or entering the last 4 of the credit card for new devices. That would dramatically limit password sharing among friends and family. The fact that they haven't, and to my knowledge haven't even publicly floated that idea, implies they don't consider it a huge issue right now. Maybe they lose so little revenue they don't care. But maybe they just don't care because of the side benefits of exposure to their products.

              I've paid for HBO before, just for GoT, and cancelled when it was done (when I had Dish and before HBO Now existed). I didn't find enough other stuff there to justify paying an ongoing subscription (they have plenty of good programming, but my TV watching has declined dramatically). Netflix on the other hand provides our whole family enough content to justify the subscription (and cheaper than HBO). Amazon Prime provides enough benefits to justify. I don't think Hulu does, but my wife loves it so we pay for it.

              I'll give another bad analogy. Imagine water cost $1000/gallon. Lots of people would steal it. Now imagine it costs 1 cent a gallon. Suddenly 99.99% of folks pay for it. HBO isn't water, but there are pure economic decisions involved in some of this as well. If HBO cost $5/month I would probably pay for it for GoT on HBO Now. At $15-20 (or whatever it is now).

              Maybe this just makes me a cheapskate, idk. It's certainly possible. However I don't think I am an ethical outlier on this issue.
              An alt-brown look at medicine, money, faith, & family
              www.RogueDadMD.com

              Comment


              • #37
                Correction:

                I hear artists complain about Pandora giving free streaming to everyone and them *not* being paid.
                An alt-brown look at medicine, money, faith, & family
                www.RogueDadMD.com

                Comment


                • #38




                  I haven’t found a way to obtain all the football that I want short of buying a standard cable or satellite bundle.
                  Click to expand...


                  Leaving aside the discussion on morality of using other's passwords I have found that by the time you add up the NFL ticket, Amazon, Hulu, NetFlix etc, etc to make up what you want you are not that much off from what you were paying recently.

                  If you truly want  to cut the cord you need to have change in behavior. See what football there is on OTA channels using the antenna. Have one subscription ( Amazon or Netflix) for some shows or movies. And if you cannot get some football or shows you want using these methods, so be it. Life is still sweet and wonderful and to be enjoyed.

                  You can always catch up the scores, see later on DVD or use the free time to find new interests. Longing to what used to be like in the past right after giving up cable will not bring much satisfaction.

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    I watch very little television, save for my favorite NFL team and favorite hockey team, once they reach the second round of the playoffs (this year they won the Cup, so I watched a lot more hockey than usual). My wife has some favorite shows that she watches to unwind after work, and occasionally we find a series that we watch together (though none currently).

                    We have a basic package of DIRECTV, and while I am sure we could do something cheaper, it all works well with our equipment, my wife knows how to record and watch her shows without needing instructions or retooling, and we can afford it. Perhaps when we retire and our income is more limited, I will look into reducing this expense.

                    I am doubly disappointed that one would exchange usernames and passwords for streaming services and then advocate doing so. IMO, it is not only stealing content from the provider but also from other customers as more paying users might serve to keep subscription prices down for those of us suckers (I guess) who pay for them.

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      Vagabond -- I get your general concern. However as far as I can tell, password sharing among friends or family is not prohibited by the TOS, nor is It illegal. Nor do I consider it morally reprehensible the way you imply.

                      Read this:

                      http://www.snopes.com/2016/07/12/sharing-netflix-passwords-hasnt-become-a-felony/

                      To reiterate -- the companies know and they don't seem to care. The artists on these platforms have not said it's costing them money.

                      This isn't the same as downloading a movie off BitTorrent. I in fact used to do that (maybe 5-6 years ago for a brief period). , I stopped because I felt that was clearly against the law and taking money from people.

                      So I really think the morality police need to cool it.

                      Going back to my original example -- when people start ticketing themselves for going 55mph in a 50mph zone, something that IS clearly against the law, and give money on their own to the local municipality, I will take the counter arguments more seriously.

                      Yes, I will continue to let my mom use my Netflix account on her TV so my kids can watch cartoons there. The fact that some of you want to shame me (or others) over this practice is frankly ridiculous.

                      I also don't think those on the opposite side are as supported by facts or laws or ethics as they think.

                      However I'm gotten myself into another argument quagmire where it's clear that some minds won't be changed and don't care to more deeply examine the opposite viewpoint, so I will bow out here.

                      To the OP -- we were paying for satellite PLUS Netflix etc. so we dropped it it for antenna and no DVR. Still saved a lot of money despite having these other services.
                      An alt-brown look at medicine, money, faith, & family
                      www.RogueDadMD.com

                      Comment


                      • #41




                        I watch very little television, save for my favorite NFL team and favorite hockey team, once they reach the second round of the playoffs (this year they won the Cup, so I watched a lot more hockey than usual). My wife has some favorite shows that she watches to unwind after work, and occasionally we find a series that we watch together (though none currently).

                        We have a basic package of DIRECTV, and while I am sure we could do something cheaper, it all works well with our equipment, my wife knows how to record and watch her shows without needing instructions or retooling, and we can afford it. Perhaps when we retire and our income is more limited, I will look into reducing this expense.

                        I am doubly disappointed that one would exchange usernames and passwords for streaming services and then advocate doing so. IMO, it is not only stealing content from the provider but also from other customers as more paying users might serve to keep subscription prices down for those of us suckers (I guess) who pay for them.
                        Click to expand...


                        Its so cheap, whats the point? And it does effect every single person in those organizations, thats lost revenue that cant be made into benefits or wages from the janitor to the board.

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          Rogue,

                          First, I suspect that many to most people on this forum have done what you are recommending at one time or another. So, I just want to say that I at least appreciate that you are willing to defend something a lot of people would not want to admit to doing (and that reluctance is itself a red flag, I think).

                          All the articles you cite are correcting the initial headlines to a July 2016 district court ruling regarding an employee who left his company and continued using another employee's credentials to access company material.  That court did not address the matter of password sharing in the setting of a paid subscription service, as many in the media had initially reported.  Even the quotes from the Netflix CEO about password sharing being allowed note that their presumption is that kids will get their own Netflix account when they leave the house (in other words, Netflix's assumption is that the password sharing is happening within a single household).

                          I think, in the end, we are just going to have to agree never to share passwords with each other and call it a day. Deal?

                          To the OP:  Sorry for derailing things.  I have been content with just a wall antenna (NBC, CBS, ABC, FOX) and replacing ESPN time with more play time with kids.  But, my football enjoyment threshold is probably different than yours.

                           

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            If sharing passwords for subscription content is acceptable, taken to the extreme, why is there more than one password extant?

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              Ticker -- those were just the best I can find. There really isn't a lot of formal discussion on this topic. I think this is a good discussion and I do understand the concerns from those who disagree with this practice; I just don't share those views.

                              If Netflix or HBO makes it clear they disapprove of these practices and expect it to stop, I would pause and probably change my behavior. I won't do so just because people on the WCI forum are giving me a hard time. ????

                              Password sharing within a single household or immediate family is clearly allowed as well as encouraged by Netflix. That's why Netflix has individual user profiles, including for kids. They only limit the number of devices you can stream to, and you can pay more for more devices. Which basically is them silently endorsing this and making their money off of it (to a degree), obviating people's concerns. HBO could do that as well if they wanted.

                              What does one do re: sharing when the kid goes to college and has a part time job waiting tables vs. $350k in med school loans as a resident or new attending? I guess maybe the latter should stop watching TV and make more money. .

                              I also agree that we will not share our passwords with each other.
                              An alt-brown look at medicine, money, faith, & family
                              www.RogueDadMD.com

                              Comment


                              • #45







                                I haven’t found a way to obtain all the football that I want short of buying a standard cable or satellite bundle.
                                Click to expand…


                                Leaving aside the discussion on morality of using other’s passwords I have found that by the time you add up the NFL ticket, Amazon, Hulu, NetFlix etc, etc to make up what you want you are not that much off from what you were paying recently.

                                If you truly want  to cut the cord you need to have change in behavior. See what football there is on OTA channels using the antenna. Have one subscription ( Amazon or Netflix) for some shows or movies. And if you cannot get some football or shows you want using these methods, so be it. Life is still sweet and wonderful and to be enjoyed.

                                You can always catch up the scores, see later on DVD or use the free time to find new interests. Longing to what used to be like in the past right after giving up cable will not bring much satisfaction.
                                Click to expand...


                                Exactly, it has to be a change in behavior.  Some people already had cable + netflix + prime etc so it still works out to a savings, but usually the feeling I get from the people that exchange $150 cable for $150 worth of various subscriptions simply consume a ton of television and have a hard time giving it up. Personally I don't really understand how most physicians have the time to consume so much tv.  Perhaps kids and stay at home wife eat it up, but there's just not enough time in the day.

                                The friends I have still clinging to cable are all "because football."  I used to watch a lot of football but really I just don't care if Oakland or Jacksonville or the Giants beats whoever, definitely not enough to spend a couple grand a year on TV.  Watching 8 games a week was just something I was used to doing, not something I really looked forward to.  For my local team I can either go to a friend's, watch it over the air or actually go to a game.

                                For me, I was still in college and didn't feel like shelling out $80 or whatever for cable TV.  I got used to watching a lot of shows that I had on DVD, plus whatever was in the netflix rotation, a lot of star trek original series at the time  8-), that it became painful to watch regular tv with five minutes of commercials every three minutes.  Whether or not I wanted to, my cheaping out in college made it impossible to go back by the time I had the money.

                                 

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