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  • Originally posted by Zaphod View Post

    jury isnt out on this, vaccine provides far better all around immunity.
    I’ve had both, so I joke that I could swim in a pool of covid and not get covid. I’ll probably eat my words when I get covid again...

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    • Originally posted by Tim View Post

      Not to fan the flames, this classification has been adopted in virtually every phase of life, but not limited to fine print. Unwritten guidelines that are adopted and enforced seemingly out of nowhere. Plenty of controversial and some that are head scratchers.
      Book banning is a cousin of “misinformation” about vaccines. Dr. Seuss (some books) has been banned. Would you fire a nanny that insisted on reading Dr. Seuss to your children?
      A long list that evolves with unwritten rules that could be expanded to a litmus test. This is hopefully the least emotional example of restrictions being put into place. You can’t buy these books anymore. They must be dangerous.
      Oh the irony in this post pontificating on misinformation...

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      • Originally posted by East coast View Post

        Oh the irony in this post pontificating on misinformation...
        I 100% agree. As far as I can tell, Dr. Seuss has no political constituency. Political sides are chosen and pressures applied in the name of “accurate information “ , equity, Justice, or whatever comes up. Maybe it’s right, I doubt many on one side of the political spectrum cared one way or another. No doubt, which political side would have applied pressure or a desire to signal which “side” . It is merely an example of politicalization of about any topic. I won’t miss Dr. Seuss. Obama thought they were cool.

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        • I’ve noticed something in general lately……

          In olden times we would burn people at the stake for being a witch, or for being a Christian heretic… a sort of sacrifice to the old fire-gods, when things were going poorly.

          Now that we’ve advanced as human beings, we don’t believe in that primitive sort of thing…

          Instead, we do the social equivalent today, if they don’t share the approved group beliefs. This cuts across all groups and political leanings, liberal and conservative practice the same behavior equally.

          I believe that, as human beings, we have changed very little in thousands of years. Our genetic programming reins supreme. Society has changed, but we have not.

          When a patients tells me they don’t want to get the Covid vaccine, I show them a facial expression of total ambivalence. Then as a side note, I flatly tell them an, “awe shucks” story about someone I know who didn’t get the vaccine and their horrible outcome from Covid. Then I tell them that I was the same way at first, but I looked at the numbers and I decided to get it myself (which is all true). Then I say, “bye”.

          I don’t try to convince them with statistics, because we are programmed to respond to stories, not statistics. I can see in some of their expressions and body language, that it gets them thinking, and perhaps works for some.

          “Bye”.

          Comment


          • Originally posted by Jaqen Haghar MD View Post
            I’ve noticed something in general lately……

            In olden times we would burn people at the stake for being a witch, or for being a Christian heretic… a sort of sacrifice to the old fire-gods, when things were going poorly.

            Now that we’ve advanced as human beings, we don’t believe in that primitive sort of thing…

            Instead, we do the social equivalent today, if they don’t share the approved group beliefs. This cuts across all groups and political leanings, liberal and conservative practice the same behavior equally.

            I believe that, as human beings, we have changed very little in thousands of years. Our genetic programming reins supreme. Society has changed, but we have not.

            When a patients tells me they don’t want to get the Covid vaccine, I show them a facial expression of total ambivalence. Then as a side note, I flatly tell them an, “awe shucks” story about someone I know who didn’t get the vaccine and their horrible outcome from Covid. Then I tell them that I was the same way at first, but I looked at the numbers and I decided to get it myself (which is all true). Then I say, “bye”.

            I don’t try to convince them with statistics, because we are programmed to respond to stories, not statistics. I can see in some of their expressions and body language, that it gets them thinking, and perhaps works for some.

            “Bye”.
            I agree we should go back to burning people. It is more humane.

            Comment


            • Originally posted by Jaqen Haghar MD View Post
              I’ve noticed something in general lately……

              In olden times we would burn people at the stake for being a witch, or for being a Christian heretic… a sort of sacrifice to the old fire-gods, when things were going poorly.

              Now that we’ve advanced as human beings, we don’t believe in that primitive sort of thing…

              Instead, we do the social equivalent today, if they don’t share the approved group beliefs. This cuts across all groups and political leanings, liberal and conservative practice the same behavior equally.

              I believe that, as human beings, we have changed very little in thousands of years. Our genetic programming reins supreme. Society has changed, but we have not.

              When a patients tells me they don’t want to get the Covid vaccine, I show them a facial expression of total ambivalence. Then as a side note, I flatly tell them an, “awe shucks” story about someone I know who didn’t get the vaccine and their horrible outcome from Covid. Then I tell them that I was the same way at first, but I looked at the numbers and I decided to get it myself (which is all true). Then I say, “bye”.

              I don’t try to convince them with statistics, because we are programmed to respond to stories, not statistics. I can see in some of their expressions and body language, that it gets them thinking, and perhaps works for some.

              “Bye”.
              Check out the work of the late french philosopher René Girard, particularly his work on mimetic desire and the scapegoat mechanism.

              Comment


              • I'm interested in who's getting infected in LA. They have significant population of both natural immunity and immunized along with a minority population of unvaccinated. Yet there's a surge there that we were hoping a level of herd immunity would be achieved. It's not.

                Same here in San Diego. We have about 70% vaccinated which probably wont get much higher, yet our daily rates went from 70s to 200s in June-july post reopening jun15. And now July 4 bump coming into play this week and cases flexing to 500s.

                Most cases through our ED are unvaccinated and skewing younger as anticipated. There are breakthrough cases. Mostly from gatherings in large extended exposure indoors family gatherings with known unvaccinated asx folk ..

                Had one in my clinic for 'flank pain' that then history became cough started over the weekend that then divulged a fever of 101 in the am and then a sister with covid 10days ago that she spent weekend..but tested negative two days after notification and had j+j so thought ok and hung out with bunches of others ....

                Well we'll see how I feel in a few days.

                ​​​​​
                ​​​​​Point is. Personal choice is fine. Have to still understand that your personal choice impacts others in your sphere and can continue to domino during this pandemic even with good vaccinations.

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                • Originally posted by Tangler View Post

                  Yes. We need to be able to disagree without being a turd.

                  Social media has made this echo chamber amplification of hate and tribal nonsense that drives people apart and it is stupid.

                  I fish with a guy (electrician, big union guy) who is so far left it is amazing. He is in his 60's and we don't agree. But we are still friends and I might go fishing with him tonight.

                  We both love to kayak fish and he is really good at it. He is also really funny and a great guy. When he had heart surgery (bicuspid valve) I went to see him in the hospital and I actually made sure he had a great surgeon and anesthesia doc. He makes fun of me. I make fun of him. I think everyone should find someone they disagree with and go fishing with them.

                  By the way, what happened to the days when people wanted to "listen" to the opinion of a pulm CC doc? Good lord......those critters are smart and they know some stuff about medicine!
                  update: went fishing with my electrician buddy Billy last night. He and another good friend of ours. We had a blast. Billy outfished both of us!
                  Attached Files

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                  • Maybe HIPAA laws can be loosened and we can show radiographs, CTs, and actual patients with COVID. Sort of like the scared straight smoking ads, but for COVID.

                    I think they tried to do this with the pictures of body bags and large temporary morgues, but it failed because the overall distrust in MSM.

                    In case you haven't heard, us physicians only push for the vaccine because of the big checks waiting for us from big pharma.


                    Extraordinary popular delusions really does help put alot of this into perspective. This too shall pass, but at what price?



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                    • Originally posted by Lordosis View Post

                      I agree we should go back to burning people. It is more humane.
                      We would, but our laws have changed.

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                      • Was she good with your kids? Curious how long it will take u to find a replacement/good fit. I bet it will take a while in this current environment of unemployment benedits

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                        • My son 5, had in home therapy 20hrs per wk all through the pandemic with unvaccinated therapist (as vaxx was not available) . Mind you we had a newborn in feb 2020. Anyways, no one in my family nor any of the therapists had severe illnesses throughout that time. There was a 2-way symptom checker used daily before session began. Just saying being unvaccinated does not carry a 100%death sentence to those exposed to them

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                          • Originally posted by Jaqen Haghar MD View Post

                            We would, but our laws have changed.
                            Shucks

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                            • Originally posted by Dontgetthejab View Post
                              My son 5, had in home therapy 20hrs per wk all through the pandemic with unvaccinated therapist (as vaxx was not available) . Mind you we had a newborn in feb 2020. Anyways, no one in my family nor any of the therapists had severe illnesses throughout that time. There was a 2-way symptom checker used daily before session began. Just saying being unvaccinated does not carry a 100%death sentence to those exposed to them
                              Who is suggesting that it does?

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                              • Originally posted by Brains428 View Post
                                Maybe HIPAA laws can be loosened and we can show radiographs, CTs, and actual patients with COVID. Sort of like the scared straight smoking ads, but for COVID.

                                I think they tried to do this with the pictures of body bags and large temporary morgues, but it failed because the overall distrust in MSM.

                                In case you haven't heard, us physicians only push for the vaccine because of the big checks waiting for us from big pharma.


                                Extraordinary popular delusions really does help put alot of this into perspective. This too shall pass, but at what price?


                                I think those fear campaigns actually do more harm than good. It's like those videos that came out of body bags everywhere in a morgue and claiming it was from NYC. I think at one point there were reports that they were just digging mass graves in NYC for the bodies. Then of course there's the fact that they made it sound like every hospital was overrun and out of capacity when it was well in the minority. Things would be a lot easier if people just told the truth but that doesn't drive revenue.

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