Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

The unvaccinated

Collapse
This topic is closed.
X
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Originally posted by Gamma Knives View Post

    You still haven't provided a single reference to back up your claim of asymptomatic spread being almost 0 / rare. You asked for evidence and not emotion but fail to provide evidence.

    The question of vaccination after recovery is certainly less clear but not everyone has been infected. There are still many new infections (hospitalization rates in US are overwhelmingly non-vaccinated people); clearly the virus is still an issue. This is a "cold virus" that has killed millions of people around the world in the last ~18 months.

    Again provide evidence for your claims.
    Hard to do this from my phone.
    "We observed no transmission from asymptomatic case-patients and highest SAR through presymptomatic exposure." https://wwwnc.cdc.gov/eid/article/27/4/20-4576_article

    The WHO stated that asymptomatic spread was very rare.

    Household spread is very different from making everyone wear masks in public. If my kids have a cold you better believe I'm going to get it. That's life. It is also how our immune systems work. If they're not exposed they don't work.

    Comment


    • Originally posted by ohehlo View Post
      .. This isn't polio or smallpox, this is a cold virus.
      A cold virus thats put 600k+ Americans in the ground over the past two years .

      You can try to wave your hand to dispell commonsense observations.

      Statements like saying immunization provides little better protection than natural flies in the face of modern medicine and sad to see such statements from an educated physician.

      Comment


      • Originally posted by Anne View Post
        People keep talking about percentage needed for herd immunity but the problem with this is the vaccinated people are not evenly distributed within the herd of people. Even if you have 70-80% of adults vaccinated in any given city most of those adults are hanging out only with each other and the 20-30% unvaccinated are hanging out with each other. It’s not random, as the factors that make someone decide whether or not to get vaccinated also tend to align with other factors that make people want/not want to spend time together. So you can say the vaccination rate in a certain city is 70-80% but it’s still going to rip through the unvaccinated portion because within their “micro herd” the vaccination rate is much lower.
        We can't reach herd with Delta- we'd need an insanely high vax rate. It's going to be endemic....

        Comment


        • Originally posted by Tangler View Post

          Agree. If you are vaccinated you should be safe. Go back to living life.

          The message that would/should help people get the vaccine is this:

          “Get the shot = go back to normal life!”

          We screwed up that message.

          This message was not clear.

          OP, live! You are vaccinated,

          You are not likely to get seriously sick from hair cut.

          She is insane.

          She could get seriously sick.

          She should get the vaccine.

          Then she will be much safer.
          I'm careful because I spend a bunch of time with my old parents, who are probably not that well protected.

          Comment


          • Originally posted by ohehlo View Post
            We've never needed a vaccine for something like this before... This isn't polio or smallpox, this is a cold virus.
            Not only do we have vaccine(s) for this cold virus, we will almost certainly need boosters, since it is now endemic. Just like the flu.

            Comment


            • Originally posted by ohehlo View Post

              Hard to do this from my phone.
              "We observed no transmission from asymptomatic case-patients and highest SAR through presymptomatic exposure." https://wwwnc.cdc.gov/eid/article/27/4/20-4576_article

              The WHO stated that asymptomatic spread was very rare.

              Household spread is very different from making everyone wear masks in public. If my kids have a cold you better believe I'm going to get it. That's life. It is also how our immune systems work. If they're not exposed they don't work.
              Thank you for the link. A challenge with separating pre-symptomatic spread compared to asymptomatic spread is that both patients are asymptomatic at the time. The difference is if they later develop symptoms or not. So, we are still left with the challenge that people who are not (yet) exhibiting symptoms can spread infection.

              Comment


              • Thanks to all the folks who responded to my stylist dilemma- super helpful. Aside from said stylist getting vaxed, this is probably the lowest-risk scenario in my particular area. It annoys me on a moral level, but most stylists near me aren't vaxed, and most work in group settings. I feel like, weirdly, this is the lowest risk scenario for me (can't do clippers at home).

                I will go once every six weeks, mask up, and hope she gets vaxed. If not, she will eventually get Delta, and as long as our paths don't cross at that particular moment, after that it's safer for me!

                Comment


                • Originally posted by snowcanyon View Post

                  I'm careful because I spend a bunch of time with my old parents, who are probably not that well protected.
                  That is very fair and understandable. Totally get it. You are a good person, good doc and a good son / daughter.

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by StarTrekDoc View Post
                    A cold virus thats put 600k+ Americans in the ground over the past two years .

                    You can try to wave your hand to dispell commonsense observations.

                    Statements like saying immunization provides little better protection than natural flies in the face of modern medicine and sad to see such statements from an educated physician.
                    There's minimal evidence that the vaccine provides better or more lasting immunity than natural exposure.

                    If you think about it, natural immunity will provide antibodies to multiple antigens on the virus, not a single epitope like the vaccine, thus providing better resistance to genetic variants.

                    It's sad to see so many doctors swayed by sentiment more than evidence, and rule by popular vote.

                    It should absolutely be a choice whether you get the vaccine or get the virus. But you better believe you're going to get one or the other.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Gamma Knives View Post

                      Thank you for the link. A challenge with separating pre-symptomatic spread compared to asymptomatic spread is that both patients are asymptomatic at the time. The difference is if they later develop symptoms or not.
                      Bingo. In most settings, it's a distinction without a difference. All I can know about a person right now is whether or not he or she has symptoms now, not whether or not symptoms will appear within in a couple of days from now. Presymptomatic people are well-documented as being not only spreaders of COVID, but on occasion superspreaders. That's a problem.

                      And COVID is not the only respiratory illness that can be spread by presymptomatic people. A person with measles can be contagious for up to four days before the characteristic rash appears (and it's no coincidence that we developed a vaccine for it).

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by xraygoggles View Post

                        Not only do we have vaccine(s) for this cold virus, we will almost certainly need boosters, since it is now endemic. Just like the flu.
                        Agreed. And I would argue to vaccinate the vulnerable and fearful and let everyone else get it who chooses to not be vaccinated. It's their choice. You can't protect everyone from everything. Especially not a highly contagious virus.

                        Dont give up freedom for safety.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by ohehlo View Post
                          It should absolutely be a choice whether you get the vaccine or get the virus. But you better believe you're going to get one or the other.
                          Too many people DON'T believe that. Or they are convinced that if they DO get COVID, there is absolutely no chance their case will be serious or that they will develop long-haul symptoms.

                          Most people refusing immunizations are not doing it because they have objectively looked at the evidence and have made a rational choice. Don't pretend that they are.

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by artemis View Post

                            Too many people DON'T believe that. Or they are convinced that if they DO get COVID, there is absolutely no chance their case will be serious or that they will develop long-haul symptoms.

                            Most people refusing immunizations are not doing it because they have objectively looked at the evidence and have made a rational choice. Don't pretend that they are.
                            You have no way to know that. I think there are a lot of very thoughtful people in the world who weigh the pros and cons and make the best decision they can for themselves.

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by ohehlo View Post

                              You have no way to know that. I think there are a lot of very thoughtful people in the world who weigh the pros and cons and make the best decision they can for themselves.
                              You might be one of the few people that needs to spend more time on facebook. There you will find plenty of antivaxxers and they are kind enough to walk you through their "thought" processes.

                              Sure there are some people who actually read the evidence and make an informed decision not to vaccinate. But that is not your typical antivaxxer. You don't need to get on facebook. Just talk to patients who don't vaccinate and probe them for their reasons. If you are trying to suggest that the typical person who chooses not to get vaccinated is making some sort of well-informed decision, you are delusional.

                              Comment


                              • I have had about 9 reasons to not vaccinate raised with me. For 7 of them the cited risk was 1-10 orders of magnitude larger if you get the disease instead of the vaccine. Two were not comparable - that it was more natural and that they distrust pharmaceutical companies. After drilling down all I could really suss out was 'I don't wanna' it did not appear to be a reasoned comparison of the totality of risks adjusted for likelihood of getting it.

                                ​​​​

                                Comment

                                Working...
                                X