"...a doctor might be worth tens of million of dollars..."

[FIREshrink]

100K for 35 years at 5% real gets you to 9.5M. So yeah it is possible. Does it actually happen? I save that much but I am not going to do that for 35 years. Even if I work that long I will not work hard enough to continue to save 30-40% of my income.

Right but you're primary care, no offense but most docs make more than you. If you save $150 or $250 for twenty years and then keep letting it grow for another 10 before drawing it down, you end up at $11m plus.

[Kamban]

You can also reach #1-3 by having one lucky investment or one lucky year (see: 2020 mania; crypto mania; RE mania). A lot of people I personally know made 7 (and some 8) figures last year.

But the most important thing IMO is if you get lucky like that, then you need to force yourself to take some risk off the table, and preserve the newfound wealth.

The problems are

Hindsight is 20/20 but luck is very rare. You really not only need to put in the money, but also sufficient money to hit the jackpot. A person having $10M can afford to put in 500K and have it multiply 10x ( Netflix, Tesla, Amazon etc). But then they just become a $15M person than a $10M and if they lose no big deal they are still $9.5M person. The problem is the doc early in his career and having only $500-750K in disposable money to invest cannot afford to take such risks ( and sensibly does not) and thus cannot get that 10X returns in a year or two.

The second issue is one you brought up in your second sentence. Most people who see their stock of Amazon or Tesla go up 2X or 5X don't want to take it off the table. After all, why take it off so early when it can go 10X or 20X like the companies I mentioned did. Or even 100X or more like Monster drinks. The dopamine surge makes you play the game longer and longer. There is the famous Kenny Rogers song -Gambler

"You've got to know when to hold 'em
Know when to fold 'em
Know when to walk away
And know when to run"

Almost all gamblers, both in Casinos and in the stock market do not follow this important rule and hence they never become the millionaires you think they should have been.

The house always wins.

[Lordosis]

Right but you're primary care, no offense but most docs make more than you. If you save $150 or $250 for twenty years and then keep letting it grow for another 10 before drawing it down, you end up at $11m plus.

I do not disagree. But do people do it? I see plenty of specialists who make a lot of $$$ working into their golden years. I cannot imagine they all love their job so much.

I would rather live on half my income at 300K a year rather than need all my income at 1M a year.

[legobikes]

I would rather live on half my income at 300K a year rather than need all my income at 1M a year.

Indeed.


Due to this thread I pulled up a retirement calculator to see if 55 is a reasonable age to retire (even though I am technically currently bankrupt). Seems feasible with my 40% primary care 0.8 FTE savings. At 55 house is paid off and the younger one is almost done with college. Heck, I'm lookin at a sabbatical come PSLF payoff.

[uksho]

Indeed.


Due to this thread I pulled up a retirement calculator to see if 55 is a reasonable age to retire (even though I am technically currently bankrupt). Seems feasible with my 40% primary care 0.8 FTE savings. At 55 house is paid off and the younger one is almost done with college. Heck, I'm lookin at a sabbatical come PSLF payoff.

If I may ask, how much are you anticipating to spend in retirement?

[JBME]

Indeed.


Due to this thread I pulled up a retirement calculator to see if 55 is a reasonable age to retire (even though I am technically currently bankrupt). Seems feasible with my 40% primary care 0.8 FTE savings. At 55 house is paid off and the younger one is almost done with college. Heck, I'm lookin at a sabbatical come PSLF payoff.

interesting, as this is my exact plan as well. It just so happens that age 55 is when the youngest goes off to college. Goal is to have the house paid off by then (if not sooner) too. I plan to remain employed at least until age 54/55 in order to take advantage of penalty-free 401k withdrawals if you quit the year you turn 55. Of course I may choose not to retire then as well, but this is the earliest I can see myself retiring. I wonder how many others share this thinking of retiring once the youngest is off and house is paid off

[uksho]

interesting, as this is my exact plan as well. It just so happens that age 55 is when the youngest goes off to college. Goal is to have the house paid off by then (if not sooner) too. I plan to remain employed at least until age 54/55 in order to take advantage of penalty-free 401k withdrawals if you quit the year you turn 55. Of course I may choose not to retire then as well, but this is the earliest I can see myself retiring. I wonder how many others share this thinking of retiring once the youngest is off and house is paid off

The reason I asked the previous question is that my youngest would also go to college when I turn 54. Just curious what others plan to have per year in retirement. I understand it is very personal and everyone’s expenses are different . I probably wouldn’t retire, but would like to be in a position , if I need to.

[FIREshrink]

I do not disagree. But do people do it? I see plenty of specialists who make a lot of $$$ working into their golden years. I cannot imagine they all love their job so much.

I would rather live on half my income at 300K a year rather than need all my income at 1M a year.

Was just saying that it's not either or. Plenty of docs make $500k and it's easy to save half of that for 10-20 years and they will end up $10+ million. Why don't more high earning docs get there, not sure. Harder to keep delaying gratification when you don't finish training til 36 or 40.

I can see working quite late in life, at least a little, nothing to do with money.

[JBME]

The reason I asked the previous question is that my youngest would also go to college when I turn 54. Just curious what others plan to have per year in retirement. I understand it is very personal and everyone’s expenses are different . I probably wouldn’t retire, but would like to be in a position , if I need to.

I assume 6% growth per year on investments. This has me projecting $4.6m by age 54/55. Obviously I could be way off as this is 15+ years into the future. I could be way off in either direction

[Tangler]

Another question?

Why does the NY times even care how many docs have greater than 10M?

I would think it is very few, but what difference does it make?

Are they looking for someone to say nice things about?

Most docs I know work really hard and try to help people and studied really hard and gave up a lot of time/life to learn a skill that they considered altruistic.

Most are good people. An interesting target? I am sad about this.

Seems like the NY times and other outlets look for targets. Rich people are bad. Doctors are perceived as rich so docs are evil?

I read a Jordan Peterson quote the other day: "Socialists don't really care so much for the poor. They don't really love the poor. They just really hate the rich".

"Socialists and communist don't hate money, they just want to take it from those who have it and they feel justified in doing so".

Most docs are good people who worked really hard to become a doc.

Most docs try to help people.

Most docs pay a lot of taxes and do good work in their communities.

Seems like an interesting target. Divisive. Sad.

[legobikes]

The reason I asked the previous question is that my youngest would also go to college when I turn 54. Just curious what others plan to have per year in retirement. I understand it is very personal and everyone’s expenses are different . I probably wouldn’t retire, but would like to be in a position , if I need to.

I was thinking something like 100k. We're pretty frugal and aside from our mortgage, we only spend about ~40k total per year. Also my current saving rate is more than 40% because 0.8FTE is something like 200k, and we sock away 40k pretax 60k post, but just being conservative.

[Zaphod]

The problems are

Hindsight is 20/20 but luck is very rare. You really not only need to put in the money, but also sufficient money to hit the jackpot. A person having $10M can afford to put in 500K and have it multiply 10x ( Netflix, Tesla, Amazon etc). But then they just become a $15M person than a $10M and if they lose no big deal they are still $9.5M person. The problem is the doc early in his career and having only $500-750K in disposable money to invest cannot afford to take such risks ( and sensibly does not) and thus cannot get that 10X returns in a year or two.

The second issue is one you brought up in your second sentence. Most people who see their stock of Amazon or Tesla go up 2X or 5X don't want to take it off the table. After all, why take it off so early when it can go 10X or 20X like the companies I mentioned did. Or even 100X or more like Monster drinks. The dopamine surge makes you play the game longer and longer. There is the famous Kenny Rogers song -Gambler

"You've got to know when to hold 'em
Know when to fold 'em
Know when to walk away
And know when to run"

Almost all gamblers, both in Casinos and in the stock market do not follow this important rule and hence they never become the millionaires you think they should have been.

The house always wins.

I have the exact opposite problem, I am consistently taking chips off the table early, thinking something will 50-100x is insanity, ofc it happens, but counting on it is crazy.

[Codfish]

Plenty of docs make $500k and it's easy to save half of that for 10-20 years and they will end up $10+ million.

Far from easy. Saving 50% gross income for 2 decades is incredibly difficult. It takes intentionality, focus, and discipline. It takes having a plan. You need a “why” for doing so. It takes resisting lifestyle creep as your net worth grows through the millions.

[zlandar]

Far from easy. Saving 50% gross income for 2 decades is incredibly difficult. It takes intentionality, focus, and discipline. It takes having a plan. You need a “why” for doing so. It takes resisting lifestyle creep as your net worth grows through the millions.

I just picture the stereotypical doc in his/her BMW, living in a McMansion, kids in expensive private schools, and trading hot stock tips in the doctor's lounge.

Don't be that doc.

[CM]

Saving 50% gross income for 2 decades is incredibly difficult.

Not necessarily. I save more than that and it is effortless.