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  • #61
    I learned to fly in a 150 and had a blast. I always flew “old” airplanes that were well maintained with basic instruments. I think your plan makes sense in terms of the numbers. As a thought experiment I’ve often wondered if I could afford something like a vision jet later in life. Best I can tell a net worth of 10 million would be the bare minimum if you are expecting an ongoing operating cost of 150k a year. I think an SR22 or SR22T is more realistic on an income in the range we are talking. I really want to get close to my FI number before I splurge on anything like this. Does anyone else have any thoughts regarding reasonable financial guidelines for a purchase like this? Let’s work under the assumption no other debt other than maybe a mortgage.

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    • #62
      Originally posted by familydocPA View Post
      My goodness, based on this thread you would think that anyone who takes to the skies in a small airplane is destined to die in an airplane crash.

      I've stayed away from this until now because trying to convince strangers on the internet of things is a waste of time, but aren't we doctors here? Data people? I can counter all of these tales of death with my own - I've been involved in my local flying community for 10 years, and with 2 very busy airports by me (both with private and instructional flying) there have not been any deaths of any pilots at all.

      But of course that doesn't mean that death is not a risk. So what does the data show? A slow steady decline in the fatal accident rate in general, which hovers around 1 per 100,000 flight hours.

      Of course that doesn't tell the whole tale - if you can simply manage to not fly into bad weather (really easy with today's technology) and not run out of fuel (duh) you can cut out at least half of those accidents.

      Lots of things have similar levels of risk, including boating. And yes, you can die, and those odds become more likely if you are careless. But I have to live a little, and it is really my passion. So I accept the risk for what it actually is, and mitigate what I can.
      I think this is super important. I have read and watched very few accident reports where the person wasnt pushing it in some way, flying into somewhere they shouldnt have been. I think I'd want to be IFR rated, but never test it.

      As a surgeon I see the same behavior from the great majority of surgeons, doing cases that make little sense with a disregard to the overall level of safety/reward for a particular patient. People cant say no or think it reflects on them. "

      I say no all the time and cancel all the time. I've seen people do cases when a lab value is off just a bit below protocol but the patient is there, they dont want to inconvenience them, etc...that is exactly how these kinds of issues arise. I like to imagine myself explaining why i deviated from my protocol and stated usual practice on the stand to the jury. You will not lose sleep over a missed/rescheduled case and you can always go another day or wait a little bit.

      I know people have down played new features like chutes in planes as hardly helping but that isnt even true anymore, they work well if you use them, and oddly many didnt for a long while.

      It does need to be respected though.

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      • #63
        Originally posted by murl View Post
        I learned to fly in a 150 and had a blast. I always flew “old” airplanes that were well maintained with basic instruments. I think your plan makes sense in terms of the numbers. As a thought experiment I’ve often wondered if I could afford something like a vision jet later in life. Best I can tell a net worth of 10 million would be the bare minimum if you are expecting an ongoing operating cost of 150k a year. I think an SR22 or SR22T is more realistic on an income in the range we are talking. I really want to get close to my FI number before I splurge on anything like this. Does anyone else have any thoughts regarding reasonable financial guidelines for a purchase like this? Let’s work under the assumption no other debt other than maybe a mortgage.
        Great question, lots of fun to think about. For me personally, I need to have everything else totally in order before I can indulge in this. So it's $2m net worth for the CTLS. I think for a Cirrus I would want $4-8m net worth, understanding that there is a big difference between a bare bones SR-20 and a SR22T in terms of cost.

        The vision jet is a pipe dream. Maybe if I started a business and made it big, at least $10m plus. I could probably make it there on my regular job but realistically would quit before making that high of a NW. The sweet spot would be owning one at age 60 or so, still competent to fly with my wife around the country on amazing trips for a few years and with the kids out of the house. The cost of ownership would easily eclipse a million over five years, but if very comfortable otherwise could lead to some amazing adventures.

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        • #64
          Originally posted by Zaphod View Post

          I think this is super important. I have read and watched very few accident reports where the person wasnt pushing it in some way, flying into somewhere they shouldnt have been. I think I'd want to be IFR rated, but never test it.

          As a surgeon I see the same behavior from the great majority of surgeons, doing cases that make little sense with a disregard to the overall level of safety/reward for a particular patient. People cant say no or think it reflects on them. "

          I say no all the time and cancel all the time. I've seen people do cases when a lab value is off just a bit below protocol but the patient is there, they dont want to inconvenience them, etc...that is exactly how these kinds of issues arise. I like to imagine myself explaining why i deviated from my protocol and stated usual practice on the stand to the jury. You will not lose sleep over a missed/rescheduled case and you can always go another day or wait a little bit.

          I know people have down played new features like chutes in planes as hardly helping but that isnt even true anymore, they work well if you use them, and oddly many didnt for a long while.

          It does need to be respected though.
          Agree 100%.

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          • #65
            Unfortunately, it looks another physician has died in a plane crash:

            Video shows plane fall from sky, explode in residential area near San Diego (msn.com)

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            • #66
              Not a physician, but another man and his daughter with a friend.
              https://www.yahoo.com/entertainment/...hssrp_catchall
              Atlanta takeoff on the way to Houston.

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              • #67
                These things usually follow a few specific patterns:

                Disorientation or mechanical failure in instrument conditions. Flying single pilot, single engine, low IMC actual, no autopilot, into IMC is a recipe for disaster. Having an instrument rating does not mean it's a good idea to plan to fly in IMC.

                Overloaded plane crashing on takeoff. Typically with multiple family members on board. Tragic. Friend of a friend's parents were killed this way. High altitude airport, hot day, plane fully loaded. Guess what happened? The six seater cherokees were notorious for taking out doctor families this way.

                The above two incidents seem to fit right into each of these.

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