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Burnout- it's not just for doctors anymore, or workers

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  • FIREshrink
    replied




    We are having meetings about it at my institution.  Although we appreciate the acknowledgement, the meetings at 7 AM and 7 PM are only adding to the problem!
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    Unless you're a surgeon or anesthesiologist or hospitalist, a 7 am meeting signals to me, "this stuff is not important. We are not carving time out of your clinical duties for it. Instead, you carve time out of your personal life to come."

    Us shrinks sometimes resent even 8 am meetings!

    Leave a comment:


  • RogueDadMD
    replied


    What’s a non clinical day?
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    I'm a pediatric emergency medicine doc at a very academically oriented university/children's hospital.  Any time I'm not scheduled to work IN the ED is time to work on everything else -- grants, manuscripts, QI, guidelines, education/lectures, mentoring, etc.

    I'm currently finishing a grant that dramatically reduced my required ER shift time the past 2 years to let me work on research.  The grant is about to end but because of work I do in clinical informatics and pending grant applications, my bosses have agreed to float me a very nice period of ongoing reduced clinical period to both work on informatics and try to get this grant funded.

    So that means I'm expected to actually work when not in the ED, and many of the things I work on are collaborative efforts.  Since I have way less clinical time than my colleagues, I have way more "other" stuff I need to be doing.

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  • q-school
    replied
    What's a non clinical day?

    Leave a comment:


  • RogueDadMD
    replied


    We are having meetings about it at my institution.  Although we appreciate the acknowledgement, the meetings at 7 AM and 7 PM are only adding to the problem!
    Click to expand...


    On my non-clinical days I often cram in a bunch of collaborative meetings and conferences -- because I do a lot of research and QI type stuff, I am constantly arranging small or large group meetings.

    I refuse to schedule meetings before 9am or after 330pm except in very rare circumstances when I'm meeting with someone so much higher on the food-chain that I just have to take whatever time they happen to have available.

    The only time recently this has happened was a couple months ago when I had to have a 7am meeting with a couple people near the top of the med school/healthcare system executive group.

    I called into the meeting -- they said "Hey, we're upstairs, just come on up."  Unless they were hiding in my attic, they were most definitely not upstairs, because I called in from my bedroom.

    I have a working spouse and 3 young kids, and I do not feel a need to make my day and their day significantly worse by forcing everyone up at the butt-crack of dawn and out the door at 615am so I can attend a meeting.

    Leave a comment:


  • Drsan1
    replied
    I think burnout can happen in any setting, but with work there's always a choice of staying in that situation or not. Even if it means finding another job, moving, downsizing etc. As a parent you don't have the option to not do it. You do however have options such as sitters, pre-shool, parenting classes etc. Raising kids is hard and when work is also hard the burnout/stress compounds. Job Optional, Kids not.

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  • hightower
    replied




    I agree with the value of learning ways to increase your resilience, such as being aware of your emotions, taking vacation time, exercising, and getting enough sleep.  Ultimately, however, I think the best cure for burnout is to get a bunch of money in the bank so that you are no longer constrained, and can do whatever it takes to transform that burnout into inspiration and vigor.
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    Maybe, but that could take years for most physicians and the time spent trying to hoard lots of cash might be miserable if you're already burnt out.  So, one has to be careful not to keep themselves in an unhappy situation just for the pursuit of more money in hopes that the money will someday allow for "freedom" or increased happiness.  That day may never come as we all know...life can be short for some.  Gotta learn to enjoy life now of course.

    But, if you can work at a level that is tolerable and still allows for happiness now while at the same time pursue your goal of eventual financial independence, then yes that would be a winning formula.

    Leave a comment:


  • q-school
    replied




    We are having meetings about it at my institution.  Although we appreciate the acknowledgement, the meetings at 7 AM and 7 PM are only adding to the problem!
    Click to expand...


    when they couldn't find any more time at 7 am for meetings, they started 630 am meetings for me!

    i thought they were kidding at first.

    lol

     

    Leave a comment:


  • WealthyDoc
    replied
    We are having meetings about it at my institution.  Although we appreciate the acknowledgement, the meetings at 7 AM and 7 PM are only adding to the problem!

    Leave a comment:


  • resident_1
    replied




    i’m burned out from my administrators giving me books to read about physician burnout.
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    Nice. I agree.  Previous job was burning out its attendings, and administration would send these emails about physician burnout to "educate" us about it.

     

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  • Live Free MD
    replied
    I agree with the value of learning ways to increase your resilience, such as being aware of your emotions, taking vacation time, exercising, and getting enough sleep.  Ultimately, however, I think the best cure for burnout is to get a bunch of money in the bank so that you are no longer constrained, and can do whatever it takes to transform that burnout into inspiration and vigor.

    Leave a comment:


  • FIREshrink
    replied
    i'm burned out from my administrators giving me books to read about physician burnout.

    Leave a comment:


  • The White Coat Investor
    replied





    LOL, “track 1 dookie back in ’94.”  I’m unfortunately old enough to know exactly what you’re talking about  haha 
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    Unfortunately, I’m so old that I don’t know.
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    I declare I don't care no more
    I'm burning up and out and
    Growing bored
    In my smoked out boring room
    My hair is shagging in my eyes
    Dragging my feet to hit the
    Street tonight
    To drive along these ************************
    Town lights

    I'm not growing up,
    I'm just burning out
    And I stepped in line
    To walk amongst the
    Dead

    Apathy has rained on me
    Now I'm feeling like a
    Soggy dream
    So close to drowning but
    I don't mind
    I'll live inside this mental cave
    Throw my emotions in the grave
    ************************, who needs them
    Anyway

    I'm not growing up
    I'm just burning out
    And I stepped in line
    To walk amongst the
    Dead


    Artist: Green ay

    Album: Dookie

    Track 1: Burnout

    Leave a comment:


  • VagabondMD
    replied
    This is a great thread. The interest in preventing, identifying, and managing burnout is increasing and not a moment to soon. It is my opinion that once burnout is established in the individual, it can never completely be eradicated (like other emotional conditions), it can only be kept at bay. If there is a pill, strategy, trick or some other magic bullet to eliminate it, I am not aware. This has significant financial implications for the individual, the burned out practitioner, and the broader health care system.

    I do know that I attended a major specialty society meeting earlier this month, and the 1 1/2 hour session on burnout was completely packed, every seat taken, and dozens of additional attendees standing in the back. Five years ago, there would be no such session. Kudos for the society for acknowledging the problem and encouraging dialogue and education in this area.

    Leave a comment:


  • wideopenspaces
    replied
    Lots of great and insightful comments here. I think that burnout, like trauma, is very specific to the individual. One hundred people can go through the same scary experience but not everyone will be traumatized by it and only a small percentage will develop PTSD. Because of the individual coping skills and the way the outside event was internalized. So what leads one person to burn out will be considered small potatoes or ' sweating the small stuff' or life just being hard. Just like I learned in residency not to judge what others find traumatizing, it's best not to judge what causes burnout in another person. Looking at the underlying cause to see what structural changes can be made ( ie finally sleep training your 4 yo, getting your 5 yo into therapy for that geese anxiety) is helpful along with increasing your own coping skills ( usually through therapy) to decrease the burnout. Living in Utah I see a lot of young moms with 4-5 young kids who are totally burned out and depressed and I can definitely see why. And those are the things we focus on (along with meds) and they tend to get better.

    Leave a comment:


  • CM
    replied


    LOL, “track 1 dookie back in ’94.”  I’m unfortunately old enough to know exactly what you’re talking about  haha
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    Unfortunately, I'm so old that I don't know.

    Leave a comment:

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