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Dr Dao and the United Airlines incident

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  • #16
    They were both in the wrong. It should never have gotten to the boarded/removed stage, thats just poor policy and planning. He was a total hardheaded dummy for basically refusing to move, thats on him. Ive been late and last in line to board and told to shove off myself, it sucked but what can you do.

    No one was right and no one wins. Airlines are held to by law to give x% of your ticket up to 400%, they of course try to keep you in the dark about that and get you to take much less. That was their first mistake, someone will always take the money if you escalate it enough. They could have arranged car service for a passenger or crew, or another flight, anything, but they just brute forced it. Someone at delta the same weekend make 14k for missing their flights two days in a row.

    You give up a lot of rights when you board a plane, I think people forget this. People will not boycott united in any meaningful fashion, part of whats wrong with flying are the lack of choices, you take what you can get. Even this guy was running back on the plane after taking a beating.

    That in no way condones how they handled it, which was atrocious. I also dont agree with the ability of them to basically take you hostage on the tarmac once the doors closed. There has to be a better balance of customer service with airlines. You dont get to just say "security" and do whatever you want to people, thats not right either. This bs about being able to overbook as a right for the airlines is also terribly flawed and just asks for problems such as this. Not many other businesses get to do that and get away with it.

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    • #17
      Dr. Dao getting beat up by the Chicago police and UAL is the only way he was ever going to get a payday from this and (hopefully, fingers crossed), get some positive changes for the rest of us.  If he had gotten off the plane and lawyered up, there would have been 0 changes across the board..just another day doing business.  UAL stopping at $800 was the mistake.  By law they could have gone up to $1300/ticket...so not sure why they stopped at $800.  I'm actually surprised no one wanted to get off for that $$.  I would have probably taken it at $4-500 depending on the next flight option.  I took $400 for a 30 min later flight with a 45 min layover +reimbursement for the leg (thus ended up with $500 voucher) a few weeks ago.

      Unfortunately, I agree with Jim that the cops were going to win this situation, as they always do, but that doesn't mean you shouldn't know your rights.  You can youtube countless videos of law enforcement officials telling citizens to stop recording videos, making up things as they go, DUI checkpoints, ect.  Unfortunately, there is no solution to this.

      Anyways, payday of $15-30 million for Dr. Dao.  30% to lawyer, 30% to taxes, rest into a taxable account  :P   I'd ask for $100 million, settle at $50.  

       

      Airlines will continue to overbook because they need to fill seats and have 100% full flight to offer discounts across the board.  I don't have a problem with that.  Just pony up the $$$$ if you overbook.  These airlines are making multi-million dollars in fees alone...I'm sure they can afford $1k "re-accommodation"

      Another thig that annoys me is we do give up "rights" when we get onboard, but to what extent.  If the captain tells me to punch the person next to me and I don't comply, will I get dragged off (obviously very wildly hypothetical, but basically the same premise; disobeying flight crew instructions)?

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      • #18


        Anyways, payday of $15-30 million for Dr. Dao.  30% to lawyer, 30% to taxes, rest into a taxable account     I’d ask for $100 million, settle at $50.
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        Absolutely, let's not forget our priorities. The first person who sends Dr. Dao my post on 11 Reasons You Need a Taxable Account gets a year of tax preparation, absolutely free  8-) .
        Our passion is protecting clients and others from predatory and ignorant advisors. Fox & Co CPAs, Fox & Co Wealth Mgmt. 270-247-6087

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        • #19
          Out of curiosity Johanna is a large lawsuit settlement treated as earned income?

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          • #20
            It depends upon the settlement. Lost wages, yes. Personal injury, no. Punitive damages, yes. Breach of contract, yes. As you can see, all of these areas could play a role in a settlement in this case. It will be interesting.

            Edited: just noticed you specified "earned" income. The above is in reference to "taxable" income. Honestly, I don't know if any settlement for lost wages would count as "earned" income, but I suspect not.
            Our passion is protecting clients and others from predatory and ignorant advisors. Fox & Co CPAs, Fox & Co Wealth Mgmt. 270-247-6087

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            • #21


              I would have probably taken it at $4-500 depending on the next flight option. I took $400 for a 30 min later flight with a 45 min layover +reimbursement for the leg (thus ended up with $500 voucher) a few weeks ago.
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              In his case the next flight was the next day at 3 PM. No way was $800 worth missing a office schedule for a day.

              We did not take up a $1500 x 3 for ATL - Quito flight since the next flight was 24 hours later. Who knew if it will even go on time. And we had a flight to Galapagos 12 hours after landing. Miss that and you miss a $10K vacation. So the $4500 offer was not worth it for me.

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              • #22




                There are a couple of reasons why i believe you dont see a lot of physician outrage about this incident.

                 

                The first is that he was wrong for what he did period.  That doesnt mean he deserves to be beaten up but he was wrong.  We seem to live in a world where people feel entitled to do things that they arent entitled to.  Just because you are a doctor doesnt give you a right to stay on the plane.  Now if he was going to perform some lifesaving surgey and is the only person on the planet that can do it then sure but we all know thats not the case.  Very likely he didnt want to lose income from not seeing patients the next day.  Certainly it is also inconvenient to his patients but of course he could have booked a flight several days ahead or not scheduled patients so close to a flight.  Ive unfortunately over the years (b/c of weather or plane issues) been unable to return when i expected to.  I am partially to blame for those incidents.  You cant just pull out the Im a doctor card and expect that what you are planning to do is more important than anyone else.  There are some people who seem to believe that if you pay for a ticket then they cant make you get off the plane.  That just isnt true and its nothing new.  If we want it to be “more true” then we need to understand that tickets need to be more expensive so there isnt as much overbooking.  There will still be occasional circumstances.  I dont think people are willing to pay more for this issue.

                 

                The 2nd reason is i believe (always hard to know how accurate some internet information is) that he has had some issues in the past.  Those issues still dont mean he deserves to be beaten up.

                 

                Im not 100% sure UA is the bad guy here except for not continuing to increase the bid.  From what little i know, the police are the only ones involved with the injuries he sustained.  I doubt someone from UA asked for them to kick his butt.  So while i do think this individual deserves compensation for the injuries involved, he likely deserves a fine for his behavior.  You dont get to squat down and say im not going and as mentioned above, it isnt going to work any ways.
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                Why would they let a plane board beyond capacity though? Such a simple problem to fix before it gets to such a climax, people will fuss with not being allowed to board, but not as much as being pulled off.

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                • #23
                  United had a duty here to deal with the situation without causing injury. Even the average bouncer in a bar does a better job of attempting to diffuse a confrontation verbally before resorting to violence. Given the unreasonable violence and injuries, I have no sympathy for United. To me, pointing to Dr Dao is blaming the victim.
                  My Youtube channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCFF...MwBiAAKd5N8qPg

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                  • #24
                    Threw a tantrum. Argh. Grammar fail.

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                    • #25










                      There are a couple of reasons why i believe you dont see a lot of physician outrage about this incident.

                       

                      The first is that he was wrong for what he did period.  That doesnt mean he deserves to be beaten up but he was wrong.  We seem to live in a world where people feel entitled to do things that they arent entitled to.  Just because you are a doctor doesnt give you a right to stay on the plane.  Now if he was going to perform some lifesaving surgey and is the only person on the planet that can do it then sure but we all know thats not the case.  Very likely he didnt want to lose income from not seeing patients the next day.  Certainly it is also inconvenient to his patients but of course he could have booked a flight several days ahead or not scheduled patients so close to a flight.  Ive unfortunately over the years (b/c of weather or plane issues) been unable to return when i expected to.  I am partially to blame for those incidents.  You cant just pull out the Im a doctor card and expect that what you are planning to do is more important than anyone else.  There are some people who seem to believe that if you pay for a ticket then they cant make you get off the plane.  That just isnt true and its nothing new.  If we want it to be “more true” then we need to understand that tickets need to be more expensive so there isnt as much overbooking.  There will still be occasional circumstances.  I dont think people are willing to pay more for this issue.

                       

                      The 2nd reason is i believe (always hard to know how accurate some internet information is) that he has had some issues in the past.  Those issues still dont mean he deserves to be beaten up.

                       

                      Im not 100% sure UA is the bad guy here except for not continuing to increase the bid.  From what little i know, the police are the only ones involved with the injuries he sustained.  I doubt someone from UA asked for them to kick his butt.  So while i do think this individual deserves compensation for the injuries involved, he likely deserves a fine for his behavior.  You dont get to squat down and say im not going and as mentioned above, it isnt going to work any ways.
                      Click to expand…


                      Why would they let a plane board beyond capacity though? Such a simple problem to fix before it gets to such a climax, people will fuss with not being allowed to board, but not as much as being pulled off.
                      Click to expand…


                      Absolutely.  It was a mistake.  Ive made mistakens.  Havent you.  It still doesnt give him the right to squat down.

                       

                       
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                      Oh no, I think he was an idiot and made an ****************** of himself. Have thought that since the beginning, I mean what the heck was he thinking? Its stupid on both their parts. I basically agree with the quoted statement, and said so in my earlier post.

                      Its just I am more amazed that a corporation who sits down and thinks these things through from a cost/benefit analysis didnt think this would one day happen and be bad for their image in this day and age of constant self surveillance. I am not shocked at all that some idiot doesnt understand how airplanes work and made a stupid decision. Im sure UA understands that, which is why I dont get that they dont have better management processes for these issues. Its 100% predictable.

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                      • #26




                        United had a duty here to deal with the situation without causing injury. Even the average bouncer in a bar does a better job of attempting to diffuse a confrontation verbally before resorting to violence. Given the unreasonable violence and injuries, I have no sympathy for United. To me, pointing to Dr Dao is blaming the victim.
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                        Thats a simplistic view on it. How come both parties can not be wrong? Its pretty rare in life for someone to be 100% right and the other 100% wrong, its just not real. You can acknowledge poor decision making without victim blaming.

                        It wasnt united that physically booted him and Im sure they didnt expect him to take a beating of course and were probably just as horrified, it was the police that did that. That guy was suspended immediately fwiw, they knew they got caught messing up.

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                        • #27




                          Threw a tantrum. Argh. Grammar fail.
                          Click to expand...


                          lol, we all do it. All you have to do is hit the edit button and fix your boo-boo. No need to throw yourself on your sword  ops:
                          Our passion is protecting clients and others from predatory and ignorant advisors. Fox & Co CPAs, Fox & Co Wealth Mgmt. 270-247-6087

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                          • #28







                            United had a duty here to deal with the situation without causing injury. Even the average bouncer in a bar does a better job of attempting to diffuse a confrontation verbally before resorting to violence. Given the unreasonable violence and injuries, I have no sympathy for United. To me, pointing to Dr Dao is blaming the victim.
                            Click to expand…


                            Thats a simplistic view on it. How come both parties can not be wrong? Its pretty rare in life for someone to be 100% right and the other 100% wrong, its just not real. You can acknowledge poor decision making without victim blaming.

                            It wasnt united that physically booted him and Im sure they didnt expect him to take a beating of course and were probably just as horrified, it was the police that did that. That guy was suspended immediately fwiw, they knew they got caught messing up.
                            Click to expand...


                            I'm not saying he's not contributory. But the policy implications of what happened here are far more significant than one passenger's response to an eviction order. Yes, I agree that significant responsibility falls to the security personnel who handled it the way they did. I'm not clear on whather they were the Chicago police because the term I have read is "security personnel" or "airport police". But yes, they bear a lot of responsibility.
                            My Youtube channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCFF...MwBiAAKd5N8qPg

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                            • #29


                              I am not stating that Dr. Dao was a civil rights leader
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                              A civil rights leader, nope.

                              An internist with a heavily restricted medical license due to his being a felony convict with a history of trafficking in opioids and writing prescriptions and checks for sex with another man, yep.

                              You would think a professional poker player (like Dr. Dao is) would know when to hold 'em, know when to fold 'em, know when to walk away, and know when to run (apparently, he didn't know when it was past that time).

                              I hate the airlines as much as anyone.  United is surely horrible; I am skeptical that any of the other airlines are any better.  My impression of Dr. Dao is that he is not someone worth defending as he appears to use his title as a physician to justify or excuse his poor behavior - which is a disservice to all who wear the white coat.

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                              • #30




                                I have been mildly surprised that there has been no discussion regarding the incident where one of your colleagues, Dr Dao, was dragged from a United Airlines flight this week, especially from the immigrant/1st gen community. As a fellow Kentuckian, I have had a particular interest in the story. Any thoughts on this post from MommyDoc? Boycott United Airlines for Condoning Unrepentant Violence
                                Click to expand...


                                Everything has already been said.

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