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WCI on medical marijuana

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  • #16
    Clearly, from a doctor's perspective, it is a not an actual medicine when you use the definition of medicine to mean one of the thousands of individual chemicals the FDA regulates.  Marijuana is a plant made up of hundreds of chemicals, so it can't be regulated the same way as all of our other drugs.  The individual chemicals would need to be extracted, isolated, studied, then packaged into very specific doses, ratios, etc, etc.  So, from a medical doctor's perspective marijuana in the whole plant form is absolutely not and never will be an actual "medicine" like metoprolol or whatever.

    HOWEVER, that does not mean the plant doesn't contain chemicals that possess important medicinal properties.  Many of the world's most important breakthroughs in medicine came directly from nature (exenatide from Gila monsters, penicillin from fungus, etc).  Obviously what's missing here is the decades of necessary research on the chemicals in marijuana due to its schedule 1 status.

    From a private citizen's perspective, I see a couple of different things going on.  First, it is no secret that the medical marijuana movement is at least partly just a backdoor path to recreational legalization.  Everyone knows this.  So, if that's why you're against medical marijuana, then stop pretending like you know something others don't.  Of course, lots of people just get "medical" cards to get high.  Duh!  Why wouldn't you if you were someone who enjoyed marijuana for recreational reasons and happened to live in a state like California where it's easy to get a card and grants you access to stores where you can choose from hundreds of varieties of your drug of choice?

    However, there is also a large movement of people who actually do care very deeply about making marijuana available for medicinal purposes because they believe it can truly help people.  There are some pretty convincing cases of it helping children with epilepsy, cancer patients with nausea, aids patients with wasting syndrome, etc, etc.  SO, I don't think it's fair to discredit the whole movement just because so many people are using it for recreational purposes as well.

    My opinion is it should be legalized, taxed, and regulated just like alcohol and tobacco.  That would instantly simplify the whole system and hugely benefit society as a whole (in the form of tax revenue of course).  At the same time, it should be extensively studied for its potential therapeutic benefits.  But since our government has its head so far up its arse on this subject and refuses to get rid of an absolutely absurd prohibition of a harmless plant, people are just going to take matters into their own hands...hence the creation of the "medical marijuana" movement.  And it's working.  Even Ohio has a medical marijuana law now passed by John Kasich, a republican governor.  Won't be much longer.

    Comment


    • #17







      That is a VERY misleading headline.
      Click to expand…


      haha, didn’t even think about that!  sorry, didn’t mean to offend you, WCI

       

      Do physicians believe that MM can be used to treat chronic pain?  There is an opioid crisis in this country now and if people could deal with it with pot instead of oxycodone there would be significant benefits to society.  Lots of OD’s on oxy, none in the history of time on pot.

       

      I’m not a huge conspiracy theorist but clearly the pharmaceuticals have an interest in seeing pot stay illegal.  So a financial connection would be to short big pharma when it looks like pot will be legalized nationally ?
      Click to expand...


      I take exception to the no od with pot in the history of time.  I've seen a number of children overdosed on marijuana, but have not yet needed to admit any to PICU as others have. Also plenty of patients who are so addicted that they can't stop smoking despite the fact that they need to be admitted every month for cyclical vomiting.  I consider that overdose too.  POC testing for THC level could be good play money investment.  Big Pharma losing would be a black swan kind of scenario...super unlikely, but enormous possible profit.  Big Tobacco might be a good long for nationalization, they have the money and network to profit on pot...yeah, the irony is explicit coming from a doc.

      Comment


      • #18
        Use enough medicinal marijuana, and the site starts to look like this (see [redacted] image)

        Comment


        • #19










          That is a VERY misleading headline.
          Click to expand…


          haha, didn’t even think about that!  sorry, didn’t mean to offend you, WCI

           

          Do physicians believe that MM can be used to treat chronic pain?  There is an opioid crisis in this country now and if people could deal with it with pot instead of oxycodone there would be significant benefits to society.  Lots of OD’s on oxy, none in the history of time on pot.

           

          I’m not a huge conspiracy theorist but clearly the pharmaceuticals have an interest in seeing pot stay illegal.  So a financial connection would be to short big pharma when it looks like pot will be legalized nationally
          Click to expand…


          I take exception to the no od with pot in the history of time.  I’ve seen a number of children overdosed on marijuana, but have not yet needed to admit any to PICU as others have. Also plenty of patients who are so addicted that they can’t stop smoking despite the fact that they need to be admitted every month for cyclical vomiting.  I consider that overdose too.  POC testing for THC level could be good play money investment.  Big Pharma losing would be a black swan kind of scenario…super unlikely, but enormous possible profit.  Big Tobacco might be a good long for nationalization, they have the money and network to profit on pot…yeah, the irony is explicit coming from a doc.
          Click to expand...


          sorry, I meant fatal overdose.   would you agree that opiods cause significantly more fatalities then pot (zero as far as i know).

          Comment


          • #20




            Use enough medicinal marijuana, and the site starts to look like this (see image)
            Click to expand...


            I'm just happy it's back!
            Helping those who wear the white coat get a fair shake on Wall Street since 2011

            Comment


            • #22













              That is a VERY misleading headline.
              Click to expand…


              haha, didn’t even think about that!  sorry, didn’t mean to offend you, WCI

               

              Do physicians believe that MM can be used to treat chronic pain?  There is an opioid crisis in this country now and if people could deal with it with pot instead of oxycodone there would be significant benefits to society.  Lots of OD’s on oxy, none in the history of time on pot.

               

              I’m not a huge conspiracy theorist but clearly the pharmaceuticals have an interest in seeing pot stay illegal.  So a financial connection would be to short big pharma when it looks like pot will be legalized nationally
              Click to expand…


              I take exception to the no od with pot in the history of time.  I’ve seen a number of children overdosed on marijuana, but have not yet needed to admit any to PICU as others have. Also plenty of patients who are so addicted that they can’t stop smoking despite the fact that they need to be admitted every month for cyclical vomiting.  I consider that overdose too.  POC testing for THC level could be good play money investment.  Big Pharma losing would be a black swan kind of scenario…super unlikely, but enormous possible profit.  Big Tobacco might be a good long for nationalization, they have the money and network to profit on pot…yeah, the irony is explicit coming from a doc.
              Click to expand…


              sorry, I meant fatal overdose.   would you agree that opiods cause significantly more fatalities then pot (zero as far as i know).
              Click to expand...


              Absolutely, more fatalities with alcohol (car crash) and opiates (respiratory failure).

              Comment


              • #23
















                That is a VERY misleading headline.
                Click to expand…


                haha, didn’t even think about that!  sorry, didn’t mean to offend you, WCI

                 

                Do physicians believe that MM can be used to treat chronic pain?  There is an opioid crisis in this country now and if people could deal with it with pot instead of oxycodone there would be significant benefits to society.  Lots of OD’s on oxy, none in the history of time on pot.

                 

                I’m not a huge conspiracy theorist but clearly the pharmaceuticals have an interest in seeing pot stay illegal.  So a financial connection would be to short big pharma when it looks like pot will be legalized nationally
                Click to expand…


                I take exception to the no od with pot in the history of time.  I’ve seen a number of children overdosed on marijuana, but have not yet needed to admit any to PICU as others have. Also plenty of patients who are so addicted that they can’t stop smoking despite the fact that they need to be admitted every month for cyclical vomiting.  I consider that overdose too.  POC testing for THC level could be good play money investment.  Big Pharma losing would be a black swan kind of scenario…super unlikely, but enormous possible profit.  Big Tobacco might be a good long for nationalization, they have the money and network to profit on pot…yeah, the irony is explicit coming from a doc.
                Click to expand…


                sorry, I meant fatal overdose.   would you agree that opiods cause significantly more fatalities then pot (zero as far as i know).
                Click to expand…


                Absolutely, more fatalities with alcohol (car crash) and opiates (respiratory failure).
                Click to expand...


                so its safer then some medical alternatives by a few factors of magnitude but its not a real medicine?

                Comment


                • #24



















                  That is a VERY misleading headline.
                  Click to expand…


                  haha, didn’t even think about that!  sorry, didn’t mean to offend you, WCI

                   

                  Do physicians believe that MM can be used to treat chronic pain?  There is an opioid crisis in this country now and if people could deal with it with pot instead of oxycodone there would be significant benefits to society.  Lots of OD’s on oxy, none in the history of time on pot.

                   

                  I’m not a huge conspiracy theorist but clearly the pharmaceuticals have an interest in seeing pot stay illegal.  So a financial connection would be to short big pharma when it looks like pot will be legalized nationally
                  Click to expand…


                  I take exception to the no od with pot in the history of time.  I’ve seen a number of children overdosed on marijuana, but have not yet needed to admit any to PICU as others have. Also plenty of patients who are so addicted that they can’t stop smoking despite the fact that they need to be admitted every month for cyclical vomiting.  I consider that overdose too.  POC testing for THC level could be good play money investment.  Big Pharma losing would be a black swan kind of scenario…super unlikely, but enormous possible profit.  Big Tobacco might be a good long for nationalization, they have the money and network to profit on pot…yeah, the irony is explicit coming from a doc.
                  Click to expand…


                  sorry, I meant fatal overdose.   would you agree that opiods cause significantly more fatalities then pot (zero as far as i know).
                  Click to expand…


                  Absolutely, more fatalities with alcohol (car crash) and opiates (respiratory failure).
                  Click to expand…


                  so its safer then some medical alternatives by a few factors of magnitude but its not a real medicine?
                  Click to expand...


                  Alcohol is not considered medicine in 99.99% of uses. An exception is when injected directly into a bundle of nerves to achieve neurolysis to treat intractable pain in cancer patients. It's also a good topical antiseptic, but that's not a medicinal use, either.

                  Comment


                  • #25



















                    That is a VERY misleading headline.
                    Click to expand…


                    haha, didn’t even think about that!  sorry, didn’t mean to offend you, WCI

                     

                    Do physicians believe that MM can be used to treat chronic pain?  There is an opioid crisis in this country now and if people could deal with it with pot instead of oxycodone there would be significant benefits to society.  Lots of OD’s on oxy, none in the history of time on pot.

                     

                    I’m not a huge conspiracy theorist but clearly the pharmaceuticals have an interest in seeing pot stay illegal.  So a financial connection would be to short big pharma when it looks like pot will be legalized nationally
                    Click to expand…


                    I take exception to the no od with pot in the history of time.  I’ve seen a number of children overdosed on marijuana, but have not yet needed to admit any to PICU as others have. Also plenty of patients who are so addicted that they can’t stop smoking despite the fact that they need to be admitted every month for cyclical vomiting.  I consider that overdose too.  POC testing for THC level could be good play money investment.  Big Pharma losing would be a black swan kind of scenario…super unlikely, but enormous possible profit.  Big Tobacco might be a good long for nationalization, they have the money and network to profit on pot…yeah, the irony is explicit coming from a doc.
                    Click to expand…


                    sorry, I meant fatal overdose.   would you agree that opiods cause significantly more fatalities then pot (zero as far as i know).
                    Click to expand…


                    Absolutely, more fatalities with alcohol (car crash) and opiates (respiratory failure).
                    Click to expand…


                    so its safer then some medical alternatives by a few factors of magnitude but its not a real medicine?
                    Click to expand...


                    I don't recall saying that its not a real medicine, but yeah, I'll say it now:  marijuana is not a real medicine.  Just like eating willow bark or foxglove isn't considered taking medicine.  There are components of marijuana that have the potential of being medicine (e.g. CBD)--if the FDA changed the schedule, perhaps we could actually study it.  Of course, with the stream of bluster coming out of DC, I'm not holding my breath.

                    And re-reading this thread about Big Pharma and then PoF's post made me chuckle...I recall when I was rotating at the VA, a methanol overdose being treated with Vodka from the local grocery store...he did just fine, but now we have a super expensive drug which is the standard of care.  Big Pharma will be just fine....

                    Comment


                    • #26
                      Now that you mention it, I seem to remember having a patient on an ethanol drip after he drank his lava lamp when I was an intern.

                      Guy probably drank the lamp after smoking too much weed.  :P

                      Comment


                      • #27




                        Now that you mention it, I seem to remember having a patient on an ethanol drip after he drank his lava lamp when I was an intern.

                        Guy probably drank the lamp after smoking too much weed.  ?
                        Click to expand...


                        Drank his lava lamp? weird

                        Comment


                        • #28






















                          That is a VERY misleading headline.
                          Click to expand…


                          haha, didn’t even think about that!  sorry, didn’t mean to offend you, WCI

                           

                          Do physicians believe that MM can be used to treat chronic pain?  There is an opioid crisis in this country now and if people could deal with it with pot instead of oxycodone there would be significant benefits to society.  Lots of OD’s on oxy, none in the history of time on pot.

                           

                          I’m not a huge conspiracy theorist but clearly the pharmaceuticals have an interest in seeing pot stay illegal.  So a financial connection would be to short big pharma when it looks like pot will be legalized nationally
                          Click to expand…


                          I take exception to the no od with pot in the history of time.  I’ve seen a number of children overdosed on marijuana, but have not yet needed to admit any to PICU as others have. Also plenty of patients who are so addicted that they can’t stop smoking despite the fact that they need to be admitted every month for cyclical vomiting.  I consider that overdose too.  POC testing for THC level could be good play money investment.  Big Pharma losing would be a black swan kind of scenario…super unlikely, but enormous possible profit.  Big Tobacco might be a good long for nationalization, they have the money and network to profit on pot…yeah, the irony is explicit coming from a doc.
                          Click to expand…


                          sorry, I meant fatal overdose.   would you agree that opiods cause significantly more fatalities then pot (zero as far as i know).
                          Click to expand…


                          Absolutely, more fatalities with alcohol (car crash) and opiates (respiratory failure).
                          Click to expand…


                          so its safer then some medical alternatives by a few factors of magnitude but its not a real medicine?
                          Click to expand…


                          I don’t recall saying that its not a real medicine, but yeah, I’ll say it now:  marijuana is not a real medicine.  Just like eating willow bark or foxglove isn’t considered taking medicine.  There are components of marijuana that have the potential of being medicine (e.g. CBD)–if the FDA changed the schedule, perhaps we could actually study it.  Of course, with the stream of bluster coming out of DC, I’m not holding my breath.

                          And re-reading this thread about Big Pharma and then PoF’s post made me chuckle…I recall when I was rotating at the VA, a methanol overdose being treated with Vodka from the local grocery store…he did just fine, but now we have a super expensive drug which is the standard of care.  Big Pharma will be just fine….
                          Click to expand...


                          Just because you don't know how to prescribe it doesn't mean its not real medicine   I've had a few patients self-medicate with a margarita before an appointment with me.

                          Comment


                          • #29







                            Now that you mention it, I seem to remember having a patient on an ethanol drip after he drank his lava lamp when I was an intern.

                            Guy probably drank the lamp after smoking too much weed.  ?
                            Click to expand…


                            Drank his lava lamp? weird
                            Click to expand...


                            whats in a lava lamp anyways?

                            Comment


                            • #30
                              Triad, can you write me a prescription for willow bark?  This thread is giving me a headache. 

                              Comment

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