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UC phasing out SATs

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  • UC phasing out SATs

    Anyone else here disagree with the phasing out of standardized testing (SAT/ACT)? Lack of diversity on college campuses is definitely a big problem, but removing an objective measure of achievement from admissions is folly. The answer is to address why are certain groups not performing well on these tests, rather than saying the tests must be unfair let’s get rid of them. Relying on grades alone is problematic as straight As at one school taking less rigorous classes does not compare to perhaps less stellar grades at another high school. I believe it has been shown that high school standardized testing correlate well with collegiate success etc. So as other countries continue to lap us educationally we lower standards, uh huh makes a lot of sense.

    some interesting excerpts from the nytimes article:
    The decision, however, ran counter to a recommendation from the system’s faculty senate, which voted in April to keep the SAT and ACT. A faculty task force commissioned to study the impact of standardized tests found that they predict college success within the University of California system more effectively than high school grades or other measures.

    Robert May, a philosophy professor at the University of California, Davis, who appointed the faculty panel, said the regents’ decision would add confusion and significant costs to the admissions process at the mammoth system, and make admissions determinations even more subjective in the short-term.

  • #2
    I can't say I'm incredibly surprised. Higher education, as a whole, is typically detached from reality.

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    • #3
      It’s just the continuation of the same trend. Don’t fix the actual problem but just change a policy and pretend it will work.

      I can see this making the entire admission process much more difficult, incredibly subjective, and possibly make it easier to game the system. Essentially exactly what I’m expecting to see in medicine with step 1 going full pass fail.

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      • #4
        FLP, you are displaying rational thinking. Therefore don’t expect to understand what’s going on in the minds of those who have an outcome driven agenda and don’t care about addressing root causes of problems.

        Let’s talk about the elephant in the room here. This is about getting more blacks and Latinos into the UC system. Period. This will occur with negative effects on Asians in particular, whites to a lesser degree. This was ushered in by the courts not coming down on Harvard for systemically labeling Asians as less personable so they could achieve quota goals.

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        • #5
          Originally posted by ENT Doc View Post
          FLP, you are displaying rational thinking. Therefore don’t expect to understand what’s going on in the minds of those who have an outcome driven agenda and don’t care about addressing root causes of problems.

          Let’s talk about the elephant in the room here. This is about getting more blacks and Latinos into the UC system. Period. This will occur with negative effects on Asians in particular, whites to a lesser degree. This was ushered in by the courts not coming down on Harvard for systemically labeling Asians as less personable so they could achieve quota goals.
          Bingo!

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          • #6
            If the SAT were actually a challenging enough test to truly distinguish different levels of excellence from mediocrity, then it would be useful. It doesn't. It tests to algebra II/geometry. It doesn't test any broad knowledge. high school prep school entry (ISEE) is more rigorous than the SAT.

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            • #7
              It does seem kind of absurd if you think about it. Lets get rid of the objective measures of students so that we can rely solely on subjective measures so that we can do away with systemic racism. Isn't systemic racism supposed to be based upon one group of people having a biased subjective view of another group of people? I'm not conservative, but stuff like this is why people talk about the "liberal elite" not making very much sense.

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              • #8
                Originally posted by nephron View Post
                It does seem kind of absurd if you think about it. Lets get rid of the objective measures of students so that we can rely solely on subjective measures so that we can do away with systemic racism. Isn't systemic racism supposed to be based upon one group of people having a biased subjective view of another group of people? I'm not conservative, but stuff like this is why people talk about the "liberal elite" not making very much sense.
                It's about a group of disgruntled people who blame an objective test for providing results they don't like.

                The test is not perfect but it's not subject to the rampant grade inflation occurring in many school systems.

                When they start admitting students unprepared for the level of coursework many will struggle. Some may flunk out of college with big student loans and nothing to show for it.

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                • #9
                  I agree that standardized tests can be a useful tool in the face of the craziness that is happening with high school marks but the tests are far from perfect and are definitely gamed in many ways. University data bases of historical student performance correlated with high school of origin marks can also be useful. I know at our medical school that relying more on undergraduate marks and standardized tests and less on interviews has had some unintended (and, in the eyes of some, undesirable) consequences.

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by zlandar View Post
                    When they start admitting students unprepared for the level of coursework many will struggle. Some may flunk out of college with big student loans and nothing to show for it.
                    ************************, there's a not insignificant amount of people that graduate with degrees that end up in the same position as those that flunked out.

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                    • #11
                      this is the liberal-woke snake eating it’s own tail

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                      • #12
                        As someone who scored 39 on the old MCAT and was junior AOA, I have the opposite view. I do agree that there is systemic racism, and think the SAT/ACT is not the end all/be all.

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by NerveDoc View Post
                          As someone who scored 39 on the old MCAT and was junior AOA, I have the opposite view. I do agree that there is systemic racism, and think the SAT/ACT is not the end all/be all.
                          Yes there is systemic racism in society and the educational system but I’m referring to the test, i.e. address the issues in the educational system rather than blame a test as the source of the problem. (Half the test is mathematics)

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by fatlittlepig View Post

                            Yes there is systemic racism in society and the educational system but I’m referring to the test, i.e. address the issues in the educational system rather than blame a test as the source of the problem. (Half the test is mathematics)
                            I'm alright with the tests being phased out. There are many other criteria.

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                            • #15
                              “This is about finding young people who do a great deal with what they’ve been given”
                              Adversity bonus points weren’t enough.
                              https://www.nytimes.com/2019/05/16/us/sat-score.html
                              I fail to see how a math test has cultural or racial bias. I fail to see how we can’t have a reading comprehension and vocabulary test that doesn’t have cultural or racial bias.
                              I do see how achievement levels can be different. It seems like the intent now is establish a quota system for testing results. Good luck with that.

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