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  • You said they do very little and are basically useless. That false belief that you need a N95 respirator has been perpetuated since the beginning of the pandemic and I believe led to decreased mask utilization.

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    • Anyway, did anyone see this? I don't know how new this is so I apologize if it's old news. But, great, just what we need.

      Multisystem Inflammatory Syndrome in Children and Adolescents

      This is the kind of thing I fear about this whole pandemic is that it's still much too early to see all of the effects this thing can have as it moves through the entire population worldwide.

      Comment


      • Originally posted by hightower View Post
        Anyway, did anyone see this? I don't know how new this is so I apologize if it's old news. But, great, just what we need.

        Multisystem Inflammatory Syndrome in Children and Adolescents

        This is the kind of thing I fear about this whole pandemic is that it's still much too early to see all of the effects this thing can have as it moves through the entire population worldwide.
        Old news.

        Comment


        • Originally posted by hightower View Post

          Yes, but remember, surgical masks or home made cloth masks (which is what most people use) do very little good to protect from airborne illnesses. They perhaps slow the rate of spread a little from someone who may otherwise be coughing and sneezing all over the place, but as to blocking virus particles from getting in, they are basically useless. N-95s are another story of course. If everyone had been wearing those, very little to worry about.

          But, the protests are certainly evidence that close human contact, especially in large numbers, is how this virus spreads easiest.
          My understanding is that yes, the surgical masks don’t protect you, but they protect others from you. So if everyone had just worn them from the start we would be in a different position. But the CDC knowingly lied and said they were ineffective because they were concerned about diminishing the supply. And now when they backtrack nobody listens to them. Plus good luck convincing our me first society to do something that causes a modicum of personal discomfort for the good of others.

          Comment


          • I never understood the whole masks are there to protect others but they don’t protect yourself. They do both. Sure some covid particles will be able to slip by the sides of a surgical or cloth mask but we know that amount of viral inoculation is important to degree of sickness.

            Comment


            • Originally posted by hightower View Post
              Anyway, did anyone see this? I don't know how new this is so I apologize if it's old news. But, great, just what we need.

              Multisystem Inflammatory Syndrome in Children and Adolescents

              This is the kind of thing I fear about this whole pandemic is that it's still much too early to see all of the effects this thing can have as it moves through the entire population worldwide.
              Not that different from normal Kawasaki with the exceptions that myocardial dysfunction (myocarditis?) is more common and that kids tend to need more than IVIG (steroids, biologics, etc) to get better. Our outcomes have been really excellent. Also, I've worn a surgical mask for days in rooms with kids who ended up having COVID without problems. I may have missed it, but I've seen no strong evidence that this coronavirus transmits any differently than the others. It seems - based on what we currently know - to be droplet spread and surgical masks are quite good for that.

              Comment


              • Yeah I agree re: surgical masks or even cloth masks. Everything protects a little bit and since it's also a numbers game (viral load), it matters enough that it should be reinforced that any barrier is good for protection of yourself from others and others from yourself. On the other hand, I wish there was more education that you simply do not need to wear it in your own dang car, or while walking outside unless you are in close sustained proximity to people, and even then it's unlikely. There's a huge difference in airflow between closed spaces and open air. I don't wear a mask while outside.

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                • Originally posted by Anne View Post

                  My understanding is that yes, the surgical masks don’t protect you, but they protect others from you. So if everyone had just worn them from the start we would be in a different position. But the CDC knowingly lied and said they were ineffective because they were concerned about diminishing the supply. And now when they backtrack nobody listens to them. Plus good luck convincing our me first society to do something that causes a modicum of personal discomfort for the good of others.
                  It was actually the surgeon general who tweeted and may have gave some interviews on how masks are ineffective so no one should purchase one/wear one. That was one of the great blunders of this pandemic response. The other maybe a government official who mocked the opposing party for wearing a mask and refuses to wear one in public while everyone he is exposed to is required to be tested/wears a mask. It is sad how masks have become political. There have been so many obvious blunders in this pandemic response. I do sometimes wonder if we would be better off if government officials/public health personnel could have just mandated guidelines and just covered up whatever they did not want the public to discover.

                  Comment


                  • This explains a lot:
                    https://www.theatlantic.com/politics...-wrong/613591/

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by legobikes View Post
                      Yeah I agree re: surgical masks or even cloth masks. Everything protects a little bit ...
                      Physical fitness, normal BMI, non-smoker, and an age/health level not dependent on meds and assistance just to be alive protects the best...

                      I would take being a fit 50yo person with good nutrition yet no mask who understands not touching their face in public over a 30yo diabetic lardo or chain smoker with a N95 that they remove to eat or smoke every hour (or even that they wear continuous). I'd bet on the former all day long, and so anyone who has read the literature and seen this firsthand. We all know it.

                      ...Best defense is a good offense. (for Corona, flu, pneumonia, VRE, anything communicable)

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by fatlittlepig View Post
                        I never understood the whole masks are there to protect others but they don’t protect yourself. They do both. Sure some covid particles will be able to slip by the sides of a surgical or cloth mask but we know that amount of viral inoculation is important to degree of sickness.
                        That is actually evidence based. Feel free to understand it:

                        https://bmjopen.bmj.com/content/5/4/e006577

                        The cloth masks are likely worse than nothing for their wearer… probably due to retaining moisture and causing wearer to get weakened by bacterial ailments, not being washed, being too porous, giving illusion wearer is protected and they then forget to wash hands or not touch eyes, etc. The same is likely true for paper masks worn days on end and not disposed of regularly (as most civilians are now doing), but that wasn't studied.

                        The CDC pumped out a bunch of Mar-May 2020 "review" research (in a matter of a month or less!) and intentionally excluded the only real studies (multiple in BMJ) actually comparing cloth to paper to no masks in real situations. CDC wanted to say cloth masks worked well, and they did just that. Back in EBM, there can be no meaningful research done in a month or two (sorry), and the prior results stood: cloth masks resulted in higher worker rates of contracting flu, etc they were working. The other arms of health care workers who used surgical mask continually or even arms who wore nothing at all but selectively used surgical masks when it was common sense (symptomatic or known infected patients) did better than the cloth mask arm. Since following EBM to avoid cloth masks wouldn't be a good look for business to have workers with no masks, since there weren't enough surgical masks, and since it sure wouldn't be good for public anxiety to have no masks available, it was just pulled out of thin air with new "research" that cloth works well for wearers and surrounding folk. Sorry.

                        ...The only real question in my mind would be if cloth masks are better or worse than nothing *with good training* on hand, mask, eye, wash your dang mask, etc hygiene. Most other types of masks get a lot better with the training (even no mask), but the general public will never have that knowledge and build those habits. The cloth masks for the public - and even many HCWs - are exactly what most shoddy science beliefs are: false sense of security.

                        "'Inspect every piece of pseudoscience and you will find a security blanket, a thumb to suck, a skirt to hold."
                        Last edited by Max Power; 07-02-2020, 07:31 PM.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Max Power View Post
                          That is actually evidence based. Feel free to understand it:

                          https://bmjopen.bmj.com/content/5/4/e006577

                          The cloth masks are likely worse than nothing for their wearer… probably due to retaining moisture and causing wearer to get weakened by bacterial ailments, not being washed, being too porous, giving illusion wearer is protected and they then forget to wash hands or not touch eyes, etc. The same is likely true for paper masks worn days on end and not disposed of regularly (as most civilians are now doing), but that wasn't studied.

                          The CDC pumped out a bunch of Mar-May 2020 "review" research (in a matter of a month or less!) and intentionally excluded the only real studies (multiple in BMJ) actually comparing cloth to paper to no masks in real situations. CDC wanted to say cloth masks worked well, and they did just that. Back in EBM, there can be no meaningful research done in a month or two (sorry), and the prior results stood: cloth masks resulted in higher worker rates of contracting flu, etc they were working. The other arms of health care workers who used surgical mask continually or even arms who wore nothing at all but selectively used surgical masks when it was common sense (symptomatic or known infected patients) did better than the cloth mask arm. Since following EBM to avoid cloth masks wouldn't be a good look for business to have workers with no masks, since there weren't enough surgical masks, and since it sure wouldn't be good for public anxiety to have no masks available, it was just pulled out of thin air with new "research" that cloth works well for wearers and surrounding folk. Sorry.

                          ...The only real question in my mind would be if cloth masks are better or worse than nothing *with good training* on hand, mask, eye, wash your dang mask, etc hygiene. Most other types of masks get a lot better with the training (even no mask), but the general public will never have that knowledge and build those habits. The cloth masks for the public - and even many HCWs - are exactly what most shoddy science beliefs are: false sense of security.

                          "'Inspect every piece of pseudoscience and you will find a security blanket, a thumb to suck, a skirt to hold."
                          What exactly is a paper mask? Like a origami mask? LOL

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Max Power View Post
                            That is actually evidence based. Feel free to understand it:

                            https://bmjopen.bmj.com/content/5/4/e006577

                            The cloth masks are likely worse than nothing for their wearer… probably due to retaining moisture and causing wearer to get weakened by bacterial ailments, not being washed, being too porous, giving illusion wearer is protected and they then forget to wash hands or not touch eyes, etc. The same is likely true for paper masks worn days on end and not disposed of regularly (as most civilians are now doing), but that wasn't studied.

                            The CDC pumped out a bunch of Mar-May 2020 "review" research (in a matter of a month or less!) and intentionally excluded the only real studies (multiple in BMJ) actually comparing cloth to paper to no masks in real situations. CDC wanted to say cloth masks worked well, and they did just that. Back in EBM, there can be no meaningful research done in a month or two (sorry), and the prior results stood: cloth masks resulted in higher worker rates of contracting flu, etc they were working. The other arms of health care workers who used surgical mask continually or even arms who wore nothing at all but selectively used surgical masks when it was common sense (symptomatic or known infected patients) did better than the cloth mask arm. Since following EBM to avoid cloth masks wouldn't be a good look for business to have workers with no masks, since there weren't enough surgical masks, and since it sure wouldn't be good for public anxiety to have no masks available, it was just pulled out of thin air with new "research" that cloth works well for wearers and surrounding folk. Sorry.

                            ...The only real question in my mind would be if cloth masks are better or worse than nothing *with good training* on hand, mask, eye, wash your dang mask, etc hygiene. Most other types of masks get a lot better with the training (even no mask), but the general public will never have that knowledge and build those habits. The cloth masks for the public - and even many HCWs - are exactly what most shoddy science beliefs are: false sense of security.

                            "'Inspect every piece of pseudoscience and you will find a security blanket, a thumb to suck, a skirt to hold."
                            But the cloth masks in the study didnt include the little filter that most cloth masks now come with. Also all groups had the cofounding factor of life outside the hospital- yes they were at risk on their patient wards but I cant see how someone can control for what those people are doing the other 16 hours a day. Similarly i still dont get how hospitals can say with certainty that their workers picked up COVID from the community vs pt care when they are overrun with covid. I'll continue to believe the observations of most of the rest of the world wearing masks (cloth surgical and KN 95s) gaining control of COVID while our country still debates mask usage (looking at you florida). And yes I agree with you about the regular masks (assuming what you meant as paper masks) being reused day after day. Moisture on the mask makes it way less effective, the public should've be taught to rotate masks, or dispose of them after significant usage or moisture. But no way the US wouldve said that in March, in order to prevent some idiot from buying up all the masks (like toilet paper).

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by legobikes View Post
                              ... or while walking outside unless you are in close sustained proximity to people, and even then it's unlikely. There's a huge difference in airflow between closed spaces and open air. I don't wear a mask while outside.
                              Sensible precautions are much better than stupid mandates. I too do not wear a mask while walking outside. It was 92F at 6 PM last evening and wearing a mask for the 3 mile walk would have killed me more than any Corona would. But then you see governemt officials giving mandates that masks should be worn outside at all time, or else .....

                              But when you are in an enclosed place like a shop or the physician's office it is good to have the mask on and only lower it while you at eat your desk alone. I find it stupid that people wear a mask while driving alone in a car. The coronavirus has become a political football, kicked around by both sides when it is to their advantage.

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by Kamban View Post

                                Sensible precautions are much better than stupid mandates. I too do not wear a mask while walking outside. It was 92F at 6 PM last evening and wearing a mask for the 3 mile walk would have killed me more than any Corona would. But then you see governemt officials giving mandates that masks should be worn outside at all time, or else .....

                                But when you are in an enclosed place like a shop or the physician's office it is good to have the mask on and only lower it while you at eat your desk alone. I find it stupid that people wear a mask while driving alone in a car. The coronavirus has become a political football, kicked around by both sides when it is to their advantage.
                                The government or local mandates that I have seen only require mask usage outside when you are unable to maintain social distance, not at all times.

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