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  • Yeah that's what was interesting when watching the news, was the variety of settings where people were really good about wearing a mask, had a mask but mostly had it under their nose, or wore no mask at all. But, I'm still concerned the mask wearing alone will not be nearly protective enough when you have such large gatherings of people so close together

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    • China been doing things like Disneyland Shanghai and they've been pretty good on compliance. Just need higher compliance and public buyin.

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      • This is kind of embarrassing. This is a hard to control disease, but you would think that at some point, some people would start to ask why we are doing so much worse then everybody else.

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        • Originally posted by nephron View Post
          This is kind of embarrassing. This is a hard to control disease, but you would think that at some point, some people would start to ask why we are doing so much worse then everybody else.
          Sadly, that plot is already out of date. Per Worldometers, current 7-day average of new US cases is up to 37k.

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          • Out of curiosity what is the EU doing that we’re not? Are they mandating masks? I guess I can google it

            US is also an extremely large country where the initial hot spots are doing fine and the areas that did fine initially are getting their first wave now.

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            • Originally posted by Sundance View Post
              Out of curiosity what is the EU doing that we’re not? Are they mandating masks? I guess I can google it

              US is also an extremely large country where the initial hot spots are doing fine and the areas that did fine initially are getting their first wave now.
              Hmmmm
              1. Actually had real lockdowns.
              2. Had clear top down leadership that took pandemic seriously.
              3. Leaders listened to and followed health and science advisors’ recommendations.
              4. Did not reopen before actually meeting appropriate metrics.

              To name just a handful of reasons.

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              • Originally posted by Bmac View Post

                Hmmmm
                1. Actually had real lockdowns.
                2. Had clear top down leadership that took pandemic seriously.
                3. Leaders listened to and followed health and science advisors’ recommendations.
                4. Did not reopen before actually meeting appropriate metrics.

                To name just a handful of reasons.
                Also:
                5. Having fewer anti-science/anti-vax people.
                6. Having nationalized health care.
                7. Less govt incompetence.
                8. Not polarizing proven public health recs (masks are for liberals/wimps etc..)
                9. Not having leaders with their head in the sand.

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                • What they are doing differently in the EU is not having to deal with our four-year election cycle. That is what amplifies the disaster here in the US. Not saying that our commander in chief would be a stellar crisis manager in the best of times, but from the Oval Office to dozens of governors to numerous congressmen, everyone is worried about getting re-elected.

                  I don't know EU political systems, but ours seems to stand in a tier on its own in its reliance on populism and the public's susceptibility to bias/misinformation from the mainstream and social media.

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                  • Too bad leaders on both sides of the political aisle in the USA made, & continue to make, mistakes. Hindsight is always 20/20.
                    _________________________________________

                    Any data on immunity after positively confirmed infection? Any lasting immunity?
                    $1 saved = >$1 earned. ✓

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                    • Originally posted by Sundance View Post
                      Out of curiosity what is the EU doing that we’re not? Are they mandating masks? I guess I can google it

                      US is also an extremely large country where the initial hot spots are doing fine and the areas that did fine initially are getting their first wave now.
                      I believe the number one reason the EU and many other countries are doing better at the moment is because their governments let scientists do the talking when it came to the coronavirus. The government stepped aside, put people first (not big businesses), and told everyone what to really expect with this thing. I remember reading what the German Chancellor told the German people early on...something along the lines of, "this virus is coming, it will likely infect 2 out of every 3 people before it starts to subside, and this could take a couple of years or more to achieve" She was blunt and honest and used the best available scientific evidence to decide what to do. The U.S., as we all know, got quite a mixed bag of messages from the White House, and our leader frequently got on Twitter and made bogus claims about beating the virus by Easter or telling everyone we "have it under control." That sort of poor leadership really hurts people, because coming from a person in a place of authority, many Americans actually believe what he says.
                      More recently when discussing "re-opening" the economy over there she again used clear scientific evidence to make the decision on how to proceed: https://www.vox.com/2020/4/17/212259...fting-lockdown

                      We again, got a completely different message here. What we're seeing now (with cases absolutely exploding everywhere) is simply the result of poor leadership and greed in my opinion. It's really sad. And a lot of people are going to suffer and/or die because of it.

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                      • Originally posted by billy View Post
                        some protests had good mask compliance. other protests looked like a nightmare scenario for spread. Agree it was a wasted opportunity to highlight mask wearing importance for any outside public activity around others.
                        Yes, but remember, surgical masks or home made cloth masks (which is what most people use) do very little good to protect from airborne illnesses. They perhaps slow the rate of spread a little from someone who may otherwise be coughing and sneezing all over the place, but as to blocking virus particles from getting in, they are basically useless. N-95s are another story of course. If everyone had been wearing those, very little to worry about.

                        But, the protests are certainly evidence that close human contact, especially in large numbers, is how this virus spreads easiest.

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                        • Originally posted by hightower View Post

                          I believe the number one reason the EU and many other countries are doing better at the moment is because their governments let scientists do the talking when it came to the coronavirus. The government stepped aside, put people first (not big businesses), and told everyone what to really expect with this thing. I remember reading what the German Chancellor told the German people early on...something along the lines of, "this virus is coming, it will likely infect 2 out of every 3 people before it starts to subside, and this could take a couple of years or more to achieve" She was blunt and honest and used the best available scientific evidence to decide what to do. The U.S., as we all know, got quite a mixed bag of messages from the White House, and our leader frequently got on Twitter and made bogus claims about beating the virus by Easter or telling everyone we "have it under control." That sort of poor leadership really hurts people, because coming from a person in a place of authority, many Americans actually believe what he says.
                          More recently when discussing "re-opening" the economy over there she again used clear scientific evidence to make the decision on how to proceed: https://www.vox.com/2020/4/17/212259...fting-lockdown

                          We again, got a completely different message here. What we're seeing now (with cases absolutely exploding everywhere) is simply the result of poor leadership and greed in my opinion. It's really sad. And a lot of people are going to suffer and/or die because of it.
                          each EU country is different in virus response and each country has their own governmental system so it's hard to lump them all together. Generally, the health ministry is independent and can do what they want regarding public health, the legislative and executive bodies adhere it and are usually restricted from interfering.
                          but the play book they're using is no different than what the CDC & HHS had put together post H1N1, ebola, SARS, MERS - it was just never implemented in the US during covid. Larry Brilliant: "The single most important intervention for breaking chains of transmission is testing, tracing and quarantining contacts.”
                          It's psychosomatic. You need a lobotomy, I'll get a saw.

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                          • Originally posted by hightower View Post

                            Yes, but remember, surgical masks or home made cloth masks (which is what most people use) do very little good to protect from airborne illnesses. They perhaps slow the rate of spread a little from someone who may otherwise be coughing and sneezing all over the place, but as to blocking virus particles from getting in, they are basically useless. N-95s are another story of course. If everyone had been wearing those, very little to worry about.

                            But, the protests are certainly evidence that close human contact, especially in large numbers, is how this virus spreads easiest.
                            It’s too bad your spreading the “surgical mask and cloth masks are not effective, you need N95” trope. This false statement has set us back quite a bit during the pandemic.

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                            • surgical masks and cloth masks will stop droplets- likely the main way of COVID spread (explains why asian countries did OK with the virus, hospital staff stayed safe once masks were made mandatory at my place, and I believe White.Beard.Doc saw similar results at his hospital). If you're talking about the virus alone being aerosolized/airborne, or going through masks because COVID is too small in size, they are also smaller than the size N95s allow in, although the N95 has the electrostatic thing going for it also.

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                              • Originally posted by fatlittlepig View Post

                                It’s too bad your spreading the “surgical mask and cloth masks are not effective, you need N95” trope. This false statement has set us back quite a bit during the pandemic.
                                I don't go around telling people not to wear masks. I'm in fact in strong support of mask wearing. My point is that I wouldn't feel comfortable around a bunch of people if all I had was a surgical mask. Would you have felt comfortable at a protest with thousands of people jam packed next to one another wearing only a surgical mask? I doubt it. I'd be wearing an N95 if I knew I had to be in a situation like that. That was my point, though maybe my post didn't sound like it.
                                billy surgical masks will stop some droplets from exiting your mouth and entering the air, but there will also be a lot of droplets that get around the sides of the mask too, especially if you sneeze, cough, or talk. Likewise, when you're breathing in, droplets can enter from the sides of the mask directly into your mouth/nose. Still, I'm glad people are wearing them because I'd rather have fewer droplets than 100% of the droplets.

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