Medical Discussion of Coronavirus

[Hatton]

Glad to be reading new FLP posts. I got a 4th shot because I was traveling (to WCIcon) during the omicron surge. I am not worried about it. I never mask. My local brother and his wife have Covid currently. Both have had high fevers but otherwise ok. Not hospitalized.

[Tim]

Glad to be reading new FLP posts. I got a 4th shot because I was traveling (to WCIcon) during the omicron surge. I am not worried about it. I never mask. My local brother and his wife have Covid currently. Both have had high fevers but otherwise ok. Not hospitalized.

Early January and February 2022 seems like a decade in the corona life cycle and variants.
Also glad to see FLP again. I do recall a novel he started at the start of the pandemic. I wonder if finished the novel. The plot and suspense were intriguing.

[FIREshrink]

I don't really care what the daily new cases are, either here or in Shanghai or in Timbuktu. What I am really interested in are the hospitalization rate, ICU admission rate and the death rate. These are the truly important numbers.

I have specifically avoided quoting the rag paper that some here love to parade. It loves to overdramatize things since stating the relevant things might not serve its agenda.. So here is the data from the CDC website April 6-13th

Hospitalization
1,446
Current 7-Day Average

Deaths
409
Current 7-Day Average*
486
Prior 7-Day Average
-15.7%
Change in 7-Day Average Since Prior Week


So in a country of 330M, do we have to make a huge fuss about 1446 COVID hospitalization and 409 deaths. Unfortunately they do not report the vaccination status or the age of those hospitalized and those who died but if I have to guess, a significant number of those hospitalizations and deaths will be in the unvaccinated, elderly, having comorbid conditions or a combination of the three.

I do not think the current data warrants a 4th booster dose. If anything, vaccinating the unvaccinated would give bigger bang for the buck.

Putting aside your opinion about whatever newspaper, what you wrote mostly makes sense today based on what we've seen from omicron and its descendants. Prior to omicron it absolutely wasn't true. We don't know what will be true for the next variant. Maybe we shouldn't assume anything?

4th booster doesn't do much over time and immune fatigue is a concern. On the other hand - if you are over ?60-65, have cancer, take immunosuppresants ranging from steroids to biologics, have diabetes, or have a BMI over 30 - well, your risks remain elevated even with omicron and even with 3 shots, so wouldn't it be natural for that population to seek out more protection, whether fourth shot, modified vaccines, access to faster diagnosis or better treatment and so on? Those groups mentioned comprise a lot of people in America, many tens of millions of people. Don't we want them to have access to the best health information possible, and don't you (even if your not in those groups) want it, too?

[FIREshrink]

WH: disappointed.
WH: DOJ will decide appeal.
WH: CDC will decide to appeal.
CDC demands an appeal.
An appeal is not based on facts or new evidence. It is based on only previous evidence, procedures and law. The CDC’s strategy is not to use evidence, defend opinions. At all costs, right or wrong.
My hypothesis is a new mental illness needs to be identified: Covidian Complex.
Symptoms: extreme measures and restrictions based on imaginary infections and risks.
Examples are many: protect the children so ages 2-5 the solution is require masks or require mask mandates out of an abundance of caution.

This mental illness is similar to a well known disease for every child in the US, Cooties.
“US
a children's term for an imaginary germ or repellent quality transmitted by obnoxious or slovenly people”
I would not be surprised if the WH , DOJ, CDC Fauci and the whole gang introduced new data for masks preventing Cooties.

This Covidian Complex seems to be widespread and it’s cause is unknown. We have children running the government. No data, no common sense, lost touch with reality.

I'll see your Covidian Complex, and raise you a COVID-is-just-the-cold and Biden-is-the-devil delusion.

[Kamban]

Is anyone here willing to admit to having covid fatigue and now total covid indifference? Vaccinate, accept that either you have already gotten it or will get it (I’m in the former category.) Not expending any further mental energy on covid, and not taking any particular measures to avoid it. That’s where I’ve been for at least the past 3-4 months.

I have COVID new case rate fatigue. I really don't care about it. Tell me about deaths from it.

I have COVID indifference. Had 3 doses ( full doses, not a 3rd one at half dose ). Only reason I might consider a 4th dose is if it will impact my travel outside the country, since I don't want to get sick on the start day of the journey. Recently I had a slight malaise and feverishness but did not bother to open and do the test with the free kit that our POTUS kindly sent us. By next morning I was fine and back at work. I have no idea if I have ever had a mild or symptomatic COVID infection or not.

[Tangler]

Glad to be reading new FLP posts. I got a 4th shot because I was traveling (to WCIcon) during the omicron surge. I am not worried about it. I never mask. My local brother and his wife have Covid currently. Both have had high fevers but otherwise ok. Not hospitalized.

Glad everyone is OK. I guess where I am with this whole thing is now as follows: let people do what they wish. Free country

There is debate on what works and what does not.

My wife is paranoid about her wonderful momma (who lives with us, is 82 and is on chemo) so I get why she is N-95 all day every day.

I also get why someone else should not be forced to wear an N-95 forever at every location and never eat out again.

I also think there is mixed data on how many boosters we should get..........I don't know for certain and I am am doc!

Hope your brother and his wife get well soon!

[Larry Ragman]

The DOJ appeal is odd if the intent is to ensure a return to mandatory mask policies. The court said CDC violated the Administrative Procedures Act. In response the CDC should simply propose a rule, take public comments, then implement an appropriate policy. The DOJ appears to be fighting instead for the right of the CDC to implement arbitrary policies.

[Tangler]

I'll see your Covidian Complex, and raise you a COVID-is-just-the-cold and Biden-is-the-devil delusion.

Wait............I am pretty sure I saw horns and a red tail!????!!

[Tim]

I'll see your Covidian Complex, and raise you a COVID-is-just-the-cold and Biden-is-the-devil delusion.

I call and raise you Biden has a cold.

[Tim]

Putting aside your opinion about whatever newspaper, what you wrote mostly makes sense today based on what we've seen from omicron and its descendants. Prior to omicron it absolutely wasn't true. We don't know what will be true for the next variant. Maybe we shouldn't assume anything?

4th booster doesn't do much over time and immune fatigue is a concern. On the other hand - if you are over ?60-65, have cancer, take immunosuppresants ranging from steroids to biologics, have diabetes, or have a BMI over 30 - well, your risks remain elevated even with omicron and even with 3 shots, so wouldn't it be natural for that population to seek out more protection, whether fourth shot, modified vaccines, access to faster diagnosis or better treatment and so on? Those groups mentioned comprise a lot of people in America, many tens of millions of people. Don't we want them to have access to the best health information possible, and don't you (even if your not in those groups) want it, too?

Yes we all want those groups you mentioned to have access.
Misses the appeal, it actually doesn’t pertain to those groups. Everyone on public transportation is required to wear a mask. Just because. Arbitrary process. Not one mention of restricting access to all the wonderful vaccines and boosters and therapeutics.
I would not take my 95 yr MIL on a trip. I also would not require every person over 2 to wear a mask if I did on an airplane. She has 3 shots. Not one of her physicians has recommended a 4th. She has a lot of doctors. Bigger problems. Mostly bladder problems. I had to keep the dog away from the catheter bag. Glad that is over.

[Savedfpdoc]

Had a case few wks ago. 68yr old lady, multiple issues (diabetes-A1c 7, obese, on xarelto for PEs, ) had 3 shots. Always very worried about getting covid even after she got the vaccines. She purposely did not visit her grandkids or travel due to her fear. She got covid 2 mths ago, did fine, did not require hospitalization. Then 2 wks ago I saw her in the office w a mild cough, congestion.vitals normal. X-ray w right sides infiltrate/ pna, covid test negx2. she was w Treated w antibiotics. I called her 2 days later to follow up and her husband tells me she died. The day before my call she became very fatigued taken to ER. She was intubated in the ER but didn’t survive. Don’t know all the details but appears she got septic fast.

so here’s a lady who did “everything right”(vaccines, social distance , masking etc) and she still died (not from covid apparently).

curious if we asked her now…was not seeing her grandkids /family for almost 3yrs worth it?

[Tim]

Had a case few wks ago. 68yr old lady, multiple issues (diabetes-A1c 7, obese, on xarelto for PEs, ) had 3 shots. Always very worried about getting covid even after she got the vaccines. She purposely did not visit her grandkids or travel due to her fear. She got covid 2 mths ago, did fine, did not require hospitalization. Then 2 wks ago I saw her in the office w a mild cough, congestion.vitals normal. X-ray w right sides infiltrate/ pna, covid test negx2. she was w Treated w antibiotics. I called her 2 days later to follow up and her husband tells me she died. The day before my call she became very fatigued taken to ER. She was intubated in the ER but didn’t survive. Don’t know all the details but appears she got septic fast.

so here’s a lady who did “everything right”(vaccines, social distance , masking etc) and she still died (not from covid apparently).

curious if we asked her now…was not seeing her grandkids /family for almost 3yrs worth it?

It took us awhile for about 2 years to figure this out. We kept MIL isolated until vaccines came out.
Necessity is the mother of invention. Broken hip, no visitors. Solution was daughter rounded and FaceTimed grandma in the hospital.
Zoom and FaceTime keeps MIL connected. I only wish she would have had Zoom calls. They get hilarious with grandkids. Showing grandma a new bike, kitty, and performances. It’s not the same, but does a world of good.
Fatigue setting in. Might be the last ….birthday, Easter, Christmas etc. Birthday bash for all first week in July.

For those patients at risk, I don’t think prescribing Zoom calls is a standard of care, but I doubt any concerns about malpractice.

[artemis]

so here’s a lady who did “everything right”(vaccines, social distance , masking etc) and she still died (not from covid apparently).

curious if we asked her now…was not seeing her grandkids /family for almost 3yrs worth it?

Clearly in her case it wasn't - but in order to make that call, we all have to know in advance not only our personal expiration date but our case of death. As soon as I can find a source for that information, I am signing up! Until then, though, we just have to make what seems the best decision, while knowing we're missing crucial information and the retrospectoscope may subsequently show our decision was suboptimal.

[Tim]

Clearly in her case it wasn't - but in order to make that call, we all have to know in advance not only our personal expiration date but our case of death. As soon as I can find a source for that information, I am signing up! Until then, though, we just have to make what seems the best decision, while knowing we're missing crucial information and the retrospectoscope may subsequently show our decision was suboptimal.

I don’t have enough information to judge in her case.
CDC also has refused to release data. At least in the legally obtained emails, it is because even qualified peer reviews might misinterpret it. I have no clue if or when CDC will ever identify any suboptimal decisions.

Anecdotally, when we isolated 95 yr old MIL, one of her sons that strongly wanted to visit, went into ICU the next week and passed within 2 weeks. COVID. No funerals available. We don’t know if MIL would have caught it. But, isolation seemed to be worth it. No vaccines available, but she has had three years.

Just where is this retrospectoscope available of which you speak?

[Jaqen Haghar MD]

Is anyone here willing to admit to having covid fatigue and now total covid indifference? Vaccinate, accept that either you have already gotten it or will get it (I’m in the former category.) Not expending any further mental energy on covid, and not taking any particular measures to avoid it. That’s where I’ve been for at least the past 3-4 months.

I’ve been this way for the past 1+ year, but I have noticed that that even those I know that used to be COVID-paranoid, are pretty much checked-out.

So many around here seem to have had COVID 1-2x, and so many of their contacts have also, so there is now just an extreme familiarity with it. The vast majority of these regular people did fine, and non-medical folk didn’t see the proportion of sick cases that filtered onto the hospital, so they just view it as “no big deal” at this point.

In addition, with inflation going absolutely nuts, shortages, and a clear view of a WW2 style war, people have now moved on to bigger problems.

Politically you’ve got far-right COVID-deniers, far-left COVID-obsessionalists, with the majority in the middle being COVID eye rollers now.