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  • Originally posted by Tim View Post
    The cynic in me thinks; "of course they do."

    Disclaimer: I have no medical or scientific knowledge, but may have half a clue when reading and comprehending the NEJM.

    Pfizer while touting the recently published Israeli study on the effectiveness/protection their 2nd booster/4 dose against Omicron. While elsewhere suggesting a 5th or even 6th dose maybe necessary.

    Maybe it is because in my reading of the study it is underwhelming. The increased effectiveness against infection starts diminishing after four (4) weeks and is mostly gone after eight (8).

    While there is significant protection against severe illness, the study is really too short to give even near-term projections on half-life.

    What a great product. The less effectiveness/protection it provides, the more doses are required and the more billion$ in profits.

    Comment


    • Originally posted by spiritrider View Post
      The cynic in me thinks; "of course they do."

      Disclaimer: I have no medical or scientific knowledge, but may have half a clue when reading and comprehending the NEJM.

      Pfizer while touting the recently published Israeli study on the effectiveness/protection their 2nd booster/4 dose against Omicron. While elsewhere suggesting a 5th or even 6th dose maybe necessary.

      Maybe it is because in my reading of the study it is underwhelming. The increased effectiveness against infection starts diminishing after four (4) weeks and is mostly gone after eight (8).

      While there is significant protection against severe illness, the study is really too short to give even near-term projections on half-life.

      What a great product. The less effectiveness/protection it provides, the more doses are required and the more billion$ in profits.
      You are a deep thinker. I am not. With the prior infection being factored in, should I get vaccinated on the government dime for billions in profits subsidized for what seems to be political purposes? Hard to separate the “science” from “political science” and plain old “profit”.

      Comment


      • While I think everyone should get vaccinated and the first booster. I'm on the fence about more boosters. I will probably get the 2nd booster. When is another question.

        Here again, with no medical/scientific knowledge. What is the potential long term effects on your immune system of getting four (4) doses of a vaccine in approximately a year. With more potentially in the pipeline.

        We are more than two years into this pandemic and it feels more like whack a mole than anything else.

        Comment


        • Originally posted by spiritrider View Post
          While I think everyone should get vaccinated and the first booster. I'm on the fence about more boosters. I will probably get the 2nd booster. When is another question.

          Here again, with no medical/scientific knowledge. What is the potential long term effects on your immune system of getting four (4) doses of a vaccine in approximately a year. With more potentially in the pipeline.

          We are more than two years into this pandemic and it feels more like whack a mole than anything else.

          Likely little to no risk of long term negative effects. Most of us get yearly influenza vaccines without issue. This guy seems fine too.

          A 60-year-old German allegedly received up to 90 COVID vaccine doses in order to sell vaccination certificates to people unwilling to get inoculated.

          Comment


          • Tangler as all things not so black and white and things really have changed from Feb 2020 to now. Knowledge of covid, prevention in vaccines, therapeutics and even the virality of covid itself. All playing factors.

            Staged Mitigation.
            best defense . Vaccine initial Three shots for all people. Think childhood vaccines or HPV.

            Intermittent exposure reduction.
            Stay at home as needed, especially during surgery. Just like flu season.
            Masking with quality n95 level mask when in public high density areas and especially poor circulation.
            Q4-6 boosters for high risk individuals to lower hosp/death risk a la flu shot.
            Antivirals for high risk a ala tamiflu.

            It's always been about risk mitigation, hosp risk and death prevention. All the above do that.

            We do this for every disease process. Not one single agent is going to perfect.

            Takes combination of things to lower risk for morbidity and mortality.

            Comment


            • Originally posted by Sampter View Post


              Likely little to no risk of long term negative effects. Most of us get yearly influenza vaccines without issue. This guy seems fine too.

              https://www.latimes.com/world-nation...tificate-fraud
              To be fair, COVID and the flu vaccines are different types of vaccines so making the assumption of safety between the two is without merit.

              We see people not uncommonly with blood alcohol levels over 500. They're 'fine'. If my BAC was over 500 I would be dead.

              Comment


              • I can't say I'm on board for boosters in perpetuity at this point. The pharma companies have absolutely zero incentive to NOT recommend them. The release of information and study results mainly through press releases only to find out the actual data isn't what they made it out to be is also not something to feel great about.

                Comment


                • At the present time the only reason I would take a 4th booster shot is it was required for travel or there comes a new variant that is more deadly and I would hope the booster will give me additional protection. And the vaccines remain free.

                  And I agree that one cannot compare a new mRNA vaccine with risks of myocarditis and other side effects a linfluenza vaccine that are live attenuated or inactivated.

                  And spiritrider is 100% correct. It is just the pharma companies stringing the public along with fear mongering so that the government orders more shots and the public is cowered into getting more shots.

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by CordMcNally View Post

                    To be fair, COVID and the flu vaccines are different types of vaccines so making the assumption of safety between the two is without merit.

                    We see people not uncommonly with blood alcohol levels over 500. They're 'fine'. If my BAC was over 500 I would be dead.

                    Not sure the comparison to alcoholics. Of course flu and Covid vaccines are different. Babies get 4 doses of multiple vaccines within 18 months, again I am fully aware they are different than Covid vaccines.

                    I'm not saying every person should get 4 Covid vaccines a year. 4th doses are for high risk people who for the most part don't have a long expected lifespan. Any potential "long-term" side effects is mostly irrelevant in these people. Even on the CDC page for people > 50 who are not immunosuppressed can consider the 4th dose, but doesn't say recommend.

                    I believe that independent experts need to review data to keep Pfizer/all drug companies honest on these vaccines/all drugs and not just trust Pfizer that we all should get them every 8 weeks for life.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by StarTrekDoc View Post
                      Tangler as all things not so black and white and things really have changed from Feb 2020 to now. Knowledge of covid, prevention in vaccines, therapeutics and even the virality of covid itself. All playing factors.

                      Staged Mitigation.
                      best defense . Vaccine initial Three shots for all people. Think childhood vaccines or HPV.


                      Intermittent exposure reduction.
                      Stay at home as needed, especially during surgery. Just like flu season.
                      Masking with quality n95 level mask when in public high density areas and especially poor circulation.
                      Q4-6 boosters for high risk individuals to lower hosp/death risk a la flu shot.
                      Antivirals for high risk a ala tamiflu.

                      It's always been about risk mitigation, hosp risk and death prevention. All the above do that.

                      We do this for every disease process. Not one single agent is going to perfect.

                      Takes combination of things to lower risk for morbidity and mortality.
                      A lot of unknowns here.
                      Start with the first premise:
                      Staged Mitigation.
                      best defense . Vaccine initial Three shots for all people. Think childhood vaccines or HPV.


                      That premise does not seem to be in place yet for Covid. This seems to be based on assumptions. If then, then else with prior experience is wise.
                      Like with an case, starting with a BUT invalidates the logic. I don't see the health benefit yet for childhood vaccines. Let's start over from the beginning. Just saying there is much to learn about the risk/benefits.

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by Tim View Post
                        A lot of unknowns here.
                        Start with the first premise:
                        Staged Mitigation.
                        best defense . Vaccine initial Three shots for all people. Think childhood vaccines or HPV.


                        That premise does not seem to be in place yet for Covid. This seems to be based on assumptions. If then, then else with prior experience is wise.
                        Like with an case, starting with a BUT invalidates the logic. I don't see the health benefit yet for childhood vaccines. Let's start over from the beginning. Just saying there is much to learn about the risk/benefits.
                        The evidence is quite solid of initial vaccination benefit in hospitalization/death vs unvaccinated. If one cannot agree with that statement, need to really look at the delta and omicron hosp/death of these groups. It's significant across ALL age groups and risk groups.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by StarTrekDoc View Post

                          The evidence is quite solid of initial vaccination benefit in hospitalization/death vs unvaccinated. If one cannot agree with that statement, need to really look at the delta and omicron hosp/death of these groups. It's significant across ALL age groups and risk groups.
                          I have not seen any evidence of vaccinating newborns. Most seem to point to the vaccinating of newborns. To be honest, I couldn't even tell you what the sequence is. I do trust the "science" and fully support the recommendations in place. There is a risk/benefit for vaccinations that I trust.

                          Yes I am suspicious of relying on Pfizer recommending three doses because 2 did not work. Can it help, will it cause damage, and what is the benefit? Gotta protect the kids. So, I respectfully disagree that the evidence and process for kids is clear. And the next question is the next variant.
                          I 100% agree with your position that everything is not black and white. No emergency authorization let alone final approval.

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Sampter View Post
                            Not sure the comparison to alcoholics.
                            That comparison was mainly to the link about the guy that got 90 COVID shots but I also understand you didn't really mean that it's safe just because one person got 90 shots.

                            Originally posted by Sampter View Post
                            I believe that independent experts need to review data to keep Pfizer/all drug companies honest on these vaccines/all drugs and not just trust Pfizer that we all should get them every 8 weeks for life.
                            It would be easier if these companies would release all of their data. To my knowledge, I don't believe that has been the case for Paxlovid but I quit following it over the last few weeks as cases plummeted.

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by CordMcNally View Post

                              That comparison was mainly to the link about the guy that got 90 COVID shots but I also understand you didn't really mean that it's safe just because one person got 90 shots.



                              It would be easier if these companies would release all of their data. To my knowledge, I don't believe that has been the case for Paxlovid but I quit following it over the last few weeks as cases plummeted.

                              Agreed, would also increase trust in the general population. It is ok to have a nuanced approach and to also say that we don't have all the answers.

                              Comment


                              • Hospitals are greatly decreasing mask mandates.
                                Public transportation is eliminating mask mandates.
                                Employers are removing new hire vaccine requirements and masking.

                                I wonder if “violators” or “terminated” people will be allowed a pardon of back into life. The CDC seems to have a Covidian Complex.

                                I wonder if the negative test requirement for return ? The political value of COVID is in remission. I wonder when and if “boosters” will ever gain political credibility.

                                Comment

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