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  • Originally posted by K82 View Post

    I guess I disagree that its cost effective and low burden. I find it a pain in the butt and I think there are very real detrimental aspects of this practice, especially for kids.
    I haven't seen any evidence of detriment to kids- I'm open to any articles.
    I mean, wearing gloves to draw blood is ridiculous considering how few HIV and Hep cases are transmitted in hospitals; it increases the miss rate, but we still do it for "safety."
    Washing hands is of questionable use for day-to-day encounters.
    It seems like this is mostly political blowback- other countries mask without complaint. I didn't see many complaints in California, either, among kids or adults. It just seems really political.

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    • Originally posted by K82 View Post

      Good point. I think its pretty tough to show if they work or not.
      Do you think we should get rid of them in Covid units? It seems like PPE really works- we have seen very little transmission in our Covid unit compared to in the community.

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      • Originally posted by snowcanyon View Post

        Do you think we should get rid of them in Covid units? It seems like PPE really works- we have seen very little transmission in our Covid unit compared to in the community.
        I think we should wear masks in covid units. However, I do not think we need to treat the grocery store the same as a covid unit.

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        • Originally posted by Lordosis View Post

          I think we should wear masks in covid units. However, I do not think we need to treat the grocery store the same as a covid unit.
          😂😂😂 No kidding. Pure insanity at this point.

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          • Originally posted by Lordosis View Post

            I think we should wear masks in covid units. However, I do not think we need to treat the grocery store the same as a covid unit.
            I think the hospital should provide N95 masks for those going into COVID units.
            Has not always been nor is the case.
            Why no vaccines for under 5, but masks for 2+?
            And cloth masks suffice?
            Is this the result of science or politics?
            My take is this is a complicated puzzle and some pieces are missing.

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            • Originally posted by snowcanyon View Post


              I would imagine the immunosuppressed and elderly would care very much.

              We seem to follow the UK by a few weeks; they are having huge caseloads (despite not testing), and high surges in hospital admissions, but not a significant bump in ICU admits or deaths. They are much more vaccinated and boosted than we are, and are giving the elderly a fourth dose, which we are not getting here because we ran out of money to buy doses.
              I didn’t say everybody. I do think the majority of people are over it. As with anything, there will be some people who disagree but that’s why those who need to can continue to mask and distance themselves.

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              • Originally posted by snowcanyon View Post

                Do you think we should get rid of them in Covid units? It seems like PPE really works- we have seen very little transmission in our Covid unit compared to in the community.
                I'm old enough to remember when AIDS first hit in the 80's. I was in training and worked part time as a phlebotomist. When having to draw blood on an HIV pt we had to suit up like we were exiting the lunar module on the moon before entering the room. It was way overkill because we didn't know a whole lot about its transmission. We learned, and we adapted to more appropriate safety measures. I think we're at that point with Covid. Its time to adopt more appropriate measures, and mask mandates are not part of that. If you or anyone else feels safer wearing a mask, then by all means go for it. But, making me or anyone else wear one is not appropriate or beneficial.

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                • “But, making me or anyone else wear one is not appropriate or beneficial.”
                  Two way street. I reserve the right to keep my 95 yr old MIL away from potential infections. If you or your kids are sick, you aren’t coming. If you or your kids are sick, she’s not coming for a visit. Mask or not.
                  I went to a doctor’s appointment. She said, what’s this you were out of the country last week? Cabo. Any problems. Nope. Mask off. PITA. Common sense is starting to bloom. Think it’s seasonal. It’s spring time.

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                  • Maybe I am reading it wrong but during the omicron surge there were only 2 deaths in hospital and both were in <6 months age in those 14 states. Now that can be called 2 deaths too many but bet that we have that many number of deaths in a day in that population in traffic accidents or in a week from pitbull mauling.

                    The important question is it is all well and good to wail and cry but what was / is a solution. Should no one come near or handle a 4 year or under kid. Or no unvaccinated people. Everyone who comes near that kid should wear a N-95 mask. Or the who population should be masked at all times just in case they come across such a underage, unvaccinated kid.

                    This is not a personal argument against you but when the CDC puts out such data the rational logical question is what can be done. One option would be to find a vaccine for every kid age 1 day and older but unless we make it mandatory many parents would not like to vaccine such young kids. The best solution that can be enforced is masks in large indoor events. But even there the effectiveness is spotty and many businesses don't want to lose maskless customers or have to get into altercations enforcing it ( eg flight attendants).

                    Now with new Omicron variant being the dominant strain I see that this virus is here to stay in some mutated form or the other. And even healthcare workers are tired. I had a patient admitted on a Covid floor ( both asymptomatic and symptomatic positive ) and guess what - every nurse and front desk had the mask not fully covering theirs nose and mouth. Some had it under their nose and the rest under their chin, while sitting in the central nurses / physician station.


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                    • Reading the Guardian
                      https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...s-chris-whitty


                      England has had close to 80% of its eligible population vaccinated with 2 doses and 57% with the 3rd dose. Yet the daily case rate yesterday was 94524 and the deaths 250. US has a higher population with far lower two and three dose vaccination rate. Our case rate and death rates will continue to remain higher.

                      The chief med officer there had informed that coronavirus is there to stay for decades and I agree with him. Anyone thinking that using measures like vaccine, masking and social distancing will make the virus go away is smoking something acrid.

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                      • One of the precautions that was rationed in the beginning was PPE.
                        Face masks
                        Respirators
                        Eye Protection
                        Gown
                        Gloves
                        Pretty well covers it. Only one of these was chosen to "message" to the public. Cloth masks, then and now. I remember the public making the face shields and delivering them to the hospitals. I suppose eye protection could have been used if that really was effective. Sunglasses, safety glasses or anything. Cover your eyes to protect yourself and prevent the spread. Never made it into the mainstream messaging to mandates or recommendations to the public. Only one was considered viable for getting compliance. From a public health standpoint, the shortages were used as the reason. One simple example is hand sanitizers, disappeared from physicians offices and not available in stores.
                        https://coronavirus.dc.gov/sites/def...es_10-1-21.pdf

                        The theory was the particles touch surfaces and by hand get transmitted to the eyes and cause infection. No singing allowed to avoid direct transmission to the eyes. I would point out in the guidelines still in place, eye protection is the most required PPE. What's with that? Why aren't those eye protection being required in public places?

                        I don't wish for any response, it is just that most effective means of preventing infections have never been deemed important to "message" to the public.
                        Only one, masks are mandatory. I find it hard to digest that it is based on science.

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                        • Just bumping this thread to announce that for the first time in nearly two years, my hospital doesn't have a single COVID patient admitted! *does happy dance* Numbers in the community are starting to slowly trend upward now that the Omicron BA.2 variant has arrived, so I am sure this is a temporary situation - but it is a welcome respite for the nursing staff, respiratory therapists, and physicians who have been treating these patients, and I hope it the end of the worst of the pandemic.

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                          • My daycare just shut down for a week because we had 5-10 new cases in the last few days.

                            I take care of a few of the families and I know a few more since.

                            Seems to be picking up around the community.

                            I got my hopes up again and it looks like they are getting stomped flat.

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                            • It has been really nice for the past month but it looks like Europe is a mess so I guess only a matter of time before we are slammed again.

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                              • Originally posted by StateOfMyHead View Post
                                It has been really nice for the past month but it looks like Europe is a mess so I guess only a matter of time before we are slammed again.
                                I think it's going to be a while off; right now we have a lot of people who recovered from the original Omicron variant quite recently, and that appears to confer a lot of protection. Give it a few weeks, though, and that protection will have faded significantly and we'll be vulnerable again to another surge.

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