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  • Originally posted by snowcanyon View Post
    Cases may stay at the level they are now permanently, give or take- so how would we decide when not to mask?
    You let the individual decide.

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    • Originally posted by snowcanyon View Post

      I mean, we obsess over hand washing in the hospital- this is much less of a patient safety issue than masking/ventilation. We don't tell patients they have to assume the risk of caregivers with unwashed hands, which is arguably much less of a risk than an unmasked caregiver.

      Cases may stay at the level they are now permanently, give or take- so how would we decide when not to mask?
      Are you really saying that handwashing in the hospital is less effective at preventing disease transmission than wearing a paper mask?

      Comment


      • Originally posted by K82 View Post

        Are you really saying that handwashing in the hospital is less effective at preventing disease transmission than wearing a paper mask?
        Absolutely. Two way masking is effective in preventing transmission of a disease (diseases) that have an extremely high mortality rate in the immunpcompromised, elderly, renal patients etc. I do agree that N-95s would be preferred over surgical masks, but the data for two way surgical masking are robust.

        What are we preventing with routine hand washing that could potentially kill half a million patients a year? E. coli? VRE? MRSA? C. diff?These haven't killed anywhere near as many as Covid.

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        • Looks like it is deja vu all over again.

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          • Originally posted by snowcanyon View Post

            Absolutely. Two way masking is effective in preventing transmission of a disease (diseases) that have an extremely high mortality rate in the immunpcompromised, elderly, renal patients etc. I do agree that N-95s would be preferred over surgical masks, but the data for two way surgical masking are robust.

            What are we preventing with routine hand washing that could potentially kill half a million patients a year? E. coli? VRE? MRSA? C. diff?These haven't killed anywhere near as many as Covid.
            If I was having surgery and could only have the surgeon either wear gloves or wear a mask, I would take the gloves. Wouldn't you?

            I haven't searched to see if a study has been done on the comparison, I doubt one exists, but it would be interesting.

            In regards to mask wearing. You already noted that the virus is airborne. The biggest benefit of wearing a mask is to prevent droplet spread. With airborne transmission our paper masks are merely theater in that environment. We have the benefit of looking back at over two years of results of different states and countries mandating different levels of precaution regarding Covid. Recent charts show no identifiable difference in death rate and case rate between states that had strict mandates (NY) compared to those with minimal restrictions (FL). In fact, Florida has better numbers than NY and NJ as well as many other states with more strict mask mandates. I'm ready to go back to "normal".
            Last edited by K82; 03-09-2022, 05:44 AM.

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            • As previously discussed, I appreciate the mask because it hides my smirking/yawning. It might help me keep my hands away from my face. And I can get away with shaving a little less frequently.

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              • Originally posted by G View Post
                As previously discussed, I appreciate the mask because it hides my smirking/yawning. It might help me keep my hands away from my face. And I can get away with shaving a little less frequently.
                I will have to stop making faces at people

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                • Originally posted by K82 View Post

                  If I was having surgery and could only have the surgeon either wear gloves or wear a mask, I would take the gloves. Wouldn't you?

                  I haven't searched to see if a study has been done on the comparison, I doubt one exists, but it would be interesting.

                  In regards to mask wearing. You already noted that the virus is airborne. The biggest benefit of wearing a mask is to prevent droplet spread. With airborne transmission our paper masks are merely theater in that environment. We have the benefit of looking back at over two years of results of different states and countries mandating different levels of precaution regarding Covid. Recent charts show no identifiable difference in death rate and case rate between states that had strict mandates (NY) compared to those with minimal restrictions (FL). In fact, Florida has better numbers than NY and NJ as well as many other states with more strict mask mandates. I'm ready to go back to "normal".
                  Are wearing masks perfect? ************************ no. If you are coughing/sneezing would i prefer you to have one on? Hells yes. Will some virus still get through the regular mask, of course. But id prefer if less get through. Gotta play the odds.

                  I work in a high prevalence TB area so we are constantly having patients test positive for TB and exposing myself/other people before we know. Infection control spends hours tracing/testing people so am very familiar with airborn policies and how difficult they are.

                  My plan: In-hospital during spikes wear n95. Low prevalence times, regular mask
                  out of hospital: im done with isolating/masks as long as no more crazy spikes. As long as the vaccines keep working, im living

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by Bdoc View Post

                    Are wearing masks perfect? ************************ no. If you are coughing/sneezing would i prefer you to have one on? Hells yes. Will some virus still get through the regular mask, of course. But id prefer if less get through. Gotta play the odds.

                    I work in a high prevalence TB area so we are constantly having patients test positive for TB and exposing myself/other people before we know. Infection control spends hours tracing/testing people so am very familiar with airborn policies and how difficult they are.

                    My plan: In-hospital during spikes wear n95. Low prevalence times, regular mask
                    out of hospital: im done with isolating/masks as long as no more crazy spikes. As long as the vaccines keep working, im living
                    I don't disagree with your assessment but I think at this point we need to let people decide for themselves how they want to proceed related to masks. If you feel safer with a mask on, go ahead and wear one. But I think most folk are done with being told THEY need to wear a mask to make YOU feel more comfortable.

                    The one caveat being symptomatic hacking and coughing pts in your office. They should mask, but that's been policy since before Covid.
                    Last edited by K82; 03-10-2022, 08:37 AM.

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                    • It's interesting to see what's happening in New Zealand right now. Their Covid cases are skyrocketing and they have been the poster child for the strictest lock down and mask mandates anywhere. I think we need to accept the fact that all these mandates only made us feel like we had the power to DO something. Its getting more and more evident that none of these measures did much if anything to stop it. (I'm not referring to the vaccines, though far from perfect they have decreased mortality.)

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                      • “. (I'm not referring to the vaccines, though far from perfect they have decreased mortality.)”

                        Interesting topic. No doubt vaccines were and are beneficial. Only mask mandates became an issue with school board policies. Such that the FBI needed to launch a nationwide investigation of parents at meetings.
                        Why was there not a vaccine mandate pushed for members of the teachers unions? Seems like it would have been the same if not greater priority.
                        Of course that would have put some teachers on the termination list. Different issue I guess.

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                        • https://news.yahoo.com/u-extend-airp...160912501.html

                          Good news! CDC had a 3/18/22 deadline. Of course they actually have no science basis for an extension. But, they haven't been green lighted yet by political scientists.

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Tim View Post
                            https://news.yahoo.com/u-extend-airp...160912501.html

                            Good news! CDC had a 3/18/22 deadline. Of course they actually have no science basis for an extension. But, they haven't been green lighted yet by political scientists.
                            The CDC hasn’t had a science basis for anything since Covid started.

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by HikingDO View Post

                              The CDC hasn’t had a science basis for anything since Covid started.
                              Follow the money:
                              Source #1: https://thevaccinereaction.org/2018/...-in-u-s-today/

                              Source #2: Biomedical research and development (R&D) is a large enterprise in the United States. In fiscal year (FY) 1999, the last year for which comprehensive survey data are available, federal spending on health R&D was $15.7 billion—21 percent of all federal expenditures on R&D that year (NIH, 2004a
                              https://www.nih.gov/about-nih/what-we-do/budget

                              Source #3: But, 47% of the government funding also comes from big pharma.
                              https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/...ng/5572076001/

                              Funding from Big Pharma to the government and universities are significant. They clamped down on the physicians but not Big Pharma's reach. When one contributes 20%-40% of funding, your requests and phone calls get prioritized as desired.

                              Not to mention lobbying contributions. I am sure these are only to provide "education" to the legislators. Just being sarcastic. No wonder Big Pharma wanted to avoid "most favored nation status". That would kill the golden goose. Medicare negotiations are meaningless. Already bought and paid for.


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                              • I can't believe they are increasing the cdc budget. There is a reason all of the COVID-19 variants were first discovered in other countries before we realized the variants were already here. We don't have a an actual CDC. It is a monstrous bureaucracy that needs to be defunded.

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