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  • Originally posted by Tim

    “Seems” is not a scientific conclusion. Correlation doesn’t support the conclusion. The official reason is people of color have been denied proper health is our racist society. Equity.
    I have absolutely no problem with prioritizing scarce medications to those that need it the most. Actually, some may be so far along with complications, they might be denied. Tough choices.
    The medical condition of a white, black, Asian and Latino should be used. Four candidates. Why choose based upon race? Do the white and Asian deserve denial? Or do you do all blacks first, then Latinos? Before you unload, I have black, Hispanic, white and mixed of each in my extended family. I am opposed to discrimination in all forms. Each is an individual and gets treated equally (except for my wife). Where I would seek guidance would be a mid 30’s obese vs a health 94 year old. I could actually go with the 30 year old. More years of benefit unless the advice was the weight problem was too much. Tough choices. Suitable candidate and advice, I would call race in the criteria “prejudice”. Predetermined based on race without considering the individuals.

    Omicron has left the medical community in the dust. A vaccine is to prevent infection. Our vaccines no longer do that with Omicron. Vaccines are being used as treatments. The effectiveness is so terrible in prevention, they would have never been approved! Even the WHO knows that.

    “It would be irrational, legally indefensible and contrary to the public interest for government to mandate vaccines absent any evidence that the vaccines are effective in stopping the spread of the pathogen they target. Yet that’s exactly what’s happening here.”

    Delta it worked, Omicron it didn’t.
    I am vaccinated but some of the people in my extended family need to work, need to get vaccinated but don’t deserve priority based on skin color. Don’t mandate a vaccine, kick them out of work and then tell me they deserve priority. Raw race data is racist and needs to be trashed.
    For clarity sake, I am talking about deciding who to give truly scarce treatment resources, monoclonals and oral covid antivirals.

    You are confusing the reason for a fact with the fact itself. People of color do worse with COVID. This is a fact. They are more likely to die. You are making judgements about how this fact came to be. I am not. We give older people more priority, we give people with hypertension more priority, we give obese people more priority, we give people with diabetes more priority. It is also a fact that all those people are more likely to die. Do you say we are prejudiced against non-obese people, or younger people? You do not. You do understand it is not ethical to take each individual and say "hmm, I think this person's life is worth more" right? There is a scoring system. It includes factors that increase risk of death. You give meds to people with higher scores. No prejudice, no ethical problem. I said you could disagree all you want, but understand that your disagreement is from your feelings and not from logic or science. In fact, I haven't even given my opinion, merely stated that facts of the situation. Including significant risk factors in a non-judgemental way is science.

    Also, "I have such and such family and friends" is never a useful thing to say. Who you are, who you know, and who you are related to has absolutely nothing to do with this area of discussion. I'm not questioning views on race, just pointing out the I am taking about facts and you are talking about feelings. Some of us probably have feelings about other risk factors (obesity anyone?) but that doesn't mean we shouldn't use them in evaluating who to treat. Oh, and data can't be racist.

    Comment


    • Originally posted by CordMcNally

      I've had a not insignificant number of people who have come in with viral symptoms and said it 'couldn't be COVID' because they had a negative home antigen test. They've mostly all had positive PCR tests.
      Completely agree. Home tests are garbage. It seems like when they are positive they are reliable but a negative does not make me feel better.

      maybe people are not swabbing deep enough?
      Maybe it is too early on the course?
      Maybe they think it is a pregnancy test and pee on it?

      Comment


      • Originally posted by setsail26

        For clarity sake, I am talking about deciding who to give truly scarce treatment resources, monoclonals and oral covid antivirals.

        You are confusing the reason for a fact with the fact itself. People of color do worse with COVID. This is a fact. They are more likely to die. You are making judgements about how this fact came to be. I am not. We give older people more priority, we give people with hypertension more priority, we give obese people more priority, we give people with diabetes more priority. It is also a fact that all those people are more likely to die. Do you say we are prejudiced against non-obese people, or younger people? You do not. You do understand it is not ethical to take each individual and say "hmm, I think this person's life is worth more" right? There is a scoring system. It includes factors that increase risk of death. You give meds to people with higher scores. No prejudice, no ethical problem. I said you could disagree all you want, but understand that your disagreement is from your feelings and not from logic or science. In fact, I haven't even given my opinion, merely stated that facts of the situation. Including significant risk factors in a non-judgemental way is science.

        Also, "I have such and such family and friends" is never a useful thing to say. Who you are, who you know, and who you are related to has absolutely nothing to do with this area of discussion. I'm not questioning views on race, just pointing out the I am taking about facts and you are talking about feelings. Some of us probably have feelings about other risk factors (obesity anyone?) but that doesn't mean we shouldn't use them in evaluating who to treat. Oh, and data can't be racist.
        "“Racial and ethnic minority groups have historically not had broad opportunities for economic, physical, and emotional health, and these inequities have increased the risk of getting sick and dying from COVID-19 for some groups,” the CDC writes. “Many of these same factors are contributing to the higher level of obesity in some racial and ethnic minority groups.”
        These are the facts supporting the CDC guidelines. This is not science. It is messaging. The physical risk of the person in front of you should guide your decision.
        Skin color is not a reason for priority. You may have a larger percentage of whites or asians or mexicans or blacks. So be it. The only relevant fact mentioned that seems to have a medical validity is obesity. Is broad opportunities a medical condition? Neither is skin color a cause. As a matter of fact, race was included in the original discussion for determining the vaccine priorities. It was debated by the committees. Covid does not discriminate based on skin color. The underlying conditions are the criteria. As a matter, economic status was considered. That was discarded as well. Covid does not care about race or economic status, high risk segments were identified and have not changed much. Some medical conditions have been added. Race was not one of them. Consciously or sub consciously.

        Comment


        • Originally posted by Lordosis

          Completely agree. Home tests are garbage. It seems like when they are positive they are reliable but a negative does not make me feel better.

          maybe people are not swabbing deep enough?
          Maybe it is too early on the course?
          Maybe they think it is a pregnancy test and pee on it?
          Yes. They all apply

          -almost always first postexposure why too early and fail to retest until sx and then comes to office/uc/ed
          -asx sensitivity 50-70%; sx 70-85% for the antigen tests.

          So not completely garbage, just something that's hit/miss. With sequential testing, it improves -- think FIT testing

          Comment




          • Read it and tell me it is not racist. The official state scoring system. RACE counts as much as ANY existing medical condition. This is not isolated, multiple states are count race equal to or greater than any existing medical condition. The is the CDC going all in on the promise to make up for past sins of the whites. Not a tie breaker, the medical science if intended to discriminate.

            Comment


            • Originally posted by Lordosis

              Completely agree. Home tests are garbage. It seems like when they are positive they are reliable but a negative does not make me feel better.

              maybe people are not swabbing deep enough?
              Maybe it is too early on the course?
              Maybe they think it is a pregnancy test and pee on it?
              Are the lay public dumb enough to pee on it? Lol.

              Comment


              • Originally posted by setsail26
                Freedom is a tough one. It's great for you to be free to do what you want, but it also involves me being free from you doing what you want to me.
                Who is the "you" in this statement as it relates to Covid?....the unvaccinated? And if so, what are they "doing" that infringes on your freedom?

                Comment


                • Originally posted by FunkDoc83

                  Are the lay public dumb enough to pee on it? Lol.
                  Probably the same people that bring in a Tupperware container of their own feces.

                  “Settle down there, dude. Just tell me what it looked like and I’ll take your word for it. Besides, Show and Tell isn’t on Tuesdays.”

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by CordMcNally

                    Probably the same people that bring in a Tupperware container of their own feces.

                    “Settle down there, dude. Just tell me what it looked like and I’ll take your word for it. Besides, Show and Tell isn’t on Tuesdays.”
                    My vet has me bring a stool sample. Silly me tried to crap in a baggie. Who would have thought you needed the dog stuff. Be specific.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by FunkDoc83

                      Are the lay public dumb enough to pee on it? Lol.
                      No joke this really happened 2 weeks ago.

                      There was a bag of rice on our office lab counter. I inquired about it because it was odd. I figured someone dunked their phone. One of the nurses investigated and buried in the rice was a urine cup with urine inside.

                      We were all perplexed until I suggested maybe they misheard ice.

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by Lordosis

                        No joke this really happened 2 weeks ago.

                        There was a bag of rice on our office lab counter. I inquired about it because it was odd. I figured someone dunked their phone. One of the nurses investigated and buried in the rice was a urine cup with urine inside.

                        We were all perplexed until I suggested maybe they misheard ice.
                        That is so funny :-)

                        We sometimes give medicines with cold packs to take home and self inject at a later date. We emphasize - Cold pack in the freezer and medicine in the fridge until use. And still there is the one person who puts the cold pack in the fridge and the medicine in the freezer.
                        Last edited by Kamban; 01-12-2022, 06:57 AM.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Kamban

                          That is so funny :-)

                          We sometimes give medicines with col packs to take home and self inject at a later date. We emphasize - Cold pack in the freezer and medicine in the fridge until use. And still there is the one person who puts the cold pack in the fridge and the medicine in the freezer.
                          Better than injecting the cold pack solution I guess?


                          Anyway back to covid. Are all states doing this 5 day return if symptom free or is this just NYS?

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Tim
                            https://coronavirus-download.utah.go...2-06152021.pdf

                            Read it and tell me it is not racist. The official state scoring system. RACE counts as much as ANY existing medical condition. This is not isolated, multiple states are count race equal to or greater than any existing medical condition. The is the CDC going all in on the promise to make up for past sins of the whites. Not a tie breaker, the medical science if intended to discriminate.
                            These criteria were picked to decrease hospitalizations, ICU admits, and death rates. Since persons of certain racial groups are hospitalized at a higher rate, this was another factor used, like medical conditions and age, to determine who would benefit most from treatment. They also include age, but no one is accusing it of being ageist, and gender, and no one is accusing it of being sexist.

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by snowcanyon

                              These criteria were picked to decrease hospitalizations, ICU admits, and death rates. Since persons of certain racial groups are hospitalized at a higher rate, this was another factor used, like medical conditions and age, to determine who would benefit most from treatment. They also include age, but no one is accusing it of being ageist, and gender, and no one is accusing it of being sexist.
                              Race is not like a medical condition or age. Pure and simple. Drinking the kool aid. Being female does not cause death. Being male does not cause death. Race does not cause death. Yes they have different statistical results, but it is not from medications. The goal is not to have everyone die at the average age of 84.5 years.
                              That is WOKE, racist and equity using silly logic. Everyone should be treated equally considering the medical factors.
                              Apologies in advance. The CDC has been hijacked.
                              "Woke (/ˈwoʊk/ WOHK) is an English adjective meaning 'alert to racial prejudice and discrimination' that originated in African-American Vernacular English (AAVE). Beginning in the 2010s, it came to encompass a broader awareness of social inequalities such as sexism, and has also been used as shorthand for left-wing ideas involving identity politics and social justice, such as the notion of white privilege and slavery reparations for African Americans."

                              Comment


                              • Anyone using MABs on kids? Vaccinated kids? BMI is a criteria and that would mean lots of kids would qualify - I don't know what's the status in terms of supply and current usage.

                                Comment

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