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  • Originally posted by Tim View Post
    I was appalled by the Supreme Court Justices comments or questions today for the oral arguments.
    I am not an attorney or a doctor.
    Ignorance on the actual legal issues and ignorance on the medical issues. Bypass those issues and advocate for a predetermined position.
    ”We all know....” and then state what they personally believe.
    https://www.c-span.org/video/?516920...e-test-mandate
    2 hours. - focused on policy rather than legal or science. I am depressed. People are viewed as machines spewing the virus. Judgement based upon 750k cases per day would immediately drop to zero if workplaces vaccinate. The logic is the ends justify the means. Not the way I expected. Advocacy at its best or worst.
    Free form.
    Both left and right leaning SC justices making egregiously wrong statements about covid just goes to show how polarized and partisan every branch of govt has become, with everyone cloistered in their safe spaces and political bubbles.

    & to think these people have no term limits...

    Comment


    • Originally posted by CordMcNally View Post
      Not to mention they ignore their previous statements. In May, Fauci told us that vaccinated people are 'dead ends' for the virus. I fully understand that science changes. I don't know if this was accurate information in the first place or if they had evidence to the contrary but made statements against the evidence they had. Either way, they don't acknowledge all these statements they've made in the past that have been incorrect. I don't know how they expect people to continue to trust them when they can't admit when they're wrong or when new evidence points against their previous statements. They've ruined any credibility that they had.
      Thats the problem when you have a strong political agenda. You have to tell a series of “white lies” along the way to get people to do what you want, and push your agenda forward. If you tell the whole truth, the opposition will use the details to pick you apart. ….but the white lies eventually catch up to you if you don’t achieve absolute victory.

      I think Fauci felt he had to step out, and be a voice of reason, during the past administration. I bet it was a very difficult period for him, also having to tread lightly, knowing he needed to stay on in his role for the good of the country. Now, he appears reluctant to return to the shadows, and is enjoying the limelight quite a bit… too much.

      I love the vaccine. I’m very pro vaccine. I think it is very effective, though not perfect. But I’m against government mandates and I’m against destroying people who don’t want to get it. It’s not a medical or scientific argument. That’s obvious. It’s a question of exactly how much power the government should have over your personal decisions. Of course there are a million examples of how they already have such power. It’s all a grey area in the legal world. Perhaps a million and one, is one too many.

      It’s easy to say the government should force people to do things you agree with, and it would be very easy for me to wholeheartedly support mandates. Only a fool would forgo the vaccine, with what we’ve all seen. But what happens, in the future, when the political pendulum swings back (as it always does) and it’s something you disagree with…..


      Last edited by Jaqen Haghar MD; 01-09-2022, 01:58 PM.

      Comment


      • Originally posted by xraygoggles View Post

        Both left and right leaning SC justices making egregiously wrong statements about covid just goes to show how polarized and partisan every branch of govt has become, with everyone cloistered in their safe spaces and political bubbles.

        & to think these people have no term limits...
        Applies to government employees as well. At least Fauci admitted to a problem with the statistics. The "covid hospitalized" indicates only a positive test, not that the hospitalization is in any way related to Covid. The patient happened to test positive.
        I saw an NYU Langone Health physician indicate that that percentage was about 65%.. No hospital wants to have 35% unoccupied bed, they just want to schedule them. The surges are causing the significant problems. I don't anticipate a category for hospitalized for covid in addition to vaccinated or unvaccinated. I agree, problems are occurring , but the politics is contributing to some data being unavailable. Objective viewpoints might have disappeared..

        Comment


        • Originally posted by Tim View Post

          Applies to government employees as well. At least Fauci admitted to a problem with the statistics. The "covid hospitalized" indicates only a positive test, not that the hospitalization is in any way related to Covid. The patient happened to test positive.
          I saw an NYU Langone Health physician indicate that that percentage was about 65%.. No hospital wants to have 35% unoccupied bed, they just want to schedule them. The surges are causing the significant problems. I don't anticipate a category for hospitalized for covid in addition to vaccinated or unvaccinated. I agree, problems are occurring , but the politics is contributing to some data being unavailable. Objective viewpoints might have disappeared..
          Just saw some data out of NYC that the true Covid hospitalization rate was 50% of the total, that half were incidental (hospitalized with Covid not from Covid). Which is reassuring, though higher then many experts or pundits were predicting or hoping.

          Comment


          • Looks like deaths and ICU admits are pretty much tracking the caseload in NYC, Boston, and DC, all of which are highly vaccinated, had many previous infections, although they also trend old. Clearly need to boost more, like the UK.

            https://www.nytimes.com/

            Comment


            • snowcanyon

              You posted a graph on the omiucron surge and possible increase ICU admit and death.

              Why did you delete it

              And your solution to it is?

              Comment


              • Saw some twitter account of a NYC ER doc

                Least symptomatic - 2 dose and booster. Often asymptomatic.

                Next is 2 dose mRNA , no booster

                Quite symptomatic but not dying - one dose J & J

                The most sick, ICU and dying - unvaccinated.

                Was there anything new that we already did not know or predicted?

                The problem is not what we know, but what can we do. More masking and lockdowns won't do any good.

                Comment


                • Originally posted by Kamban View Post
                  snowcanyon

                  You posted a graph on the omiucron surge and possible increase ICU admit and death.

                  Why did you delete it

                  And your solution to it is?
                  "And your solution to it is?"
                  I think this is the most important question. More of what and at what cost. Cost/benefit. I don't think there is a clear cut answer. Many opinions though.

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by Kamban View Post
                    Saw some twitter account of a NYC ER doc

                    Least symptomatic - 2 dose and booster. Often asymptomatic.

                    Next is 2 dose mRNA , no booster

                    Quite symptomatic but not dying - one dose J & J

                    The most sick, ICU and dying - unvaccinated.

                    Was there anything new that we already did not know or predicted?

                    The problem is not what we know, but what can we do. More masking and lockdowns won't do any good.
                    It seems like a very convenient description of the ill. ….Likely a little too convenient.
                    The vast majority of Covids I’ve seen during by his surge are vaccinated. Double, triple, single, J&J, even a couple with the Chinese vaccine. I’ve found the subjective symptoms to be all over the place, likely because they are so subjective based on the patients personality. The objective findings have been about the same for all groups. (CXR, Vitals, O2 Sat, Labs). It’s hard to do objective “man-flu” scoring.

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                    I think we can all say confidently though, that near 100% of the ICU COVID patients are unvaccinated, and about 80% of all patients admitted for COVID are unvaccinated)

                    We continue to see volumes and COVID cases falling here, it looks like another big, quick wave if this trend keeps up.

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                    • Kamban - that's an accurate reflection of status -- clear benefit of getting 2 doses. even better with boost.

                      We're one day off the 8000/day county highs. peaked for two days and down to 6000 (which is double the delta peak days); so about a 1 week in the 5000+ range. Hopefully no return to 8000 level next week.

                      Admissions steady at 60/40 unvaccinated/vaccinated with high risks ; Intubated: 15% vaccinated and as expected with fight chances of recovery --- unvaccinated -- vegas level odds.

                      Omicron hitting lots of the vaccinated and doing more wiping out staffing than anything this past week. We're on contingency mode for next 2 weeks anticipated.

                      Those unvaccinated are simply rolling the dice, even with omicron.

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by Kamban View Post
                        snowcanyon

                        You posted a graph on the omiucron surge and possible increase ICU admit and death.

                        Why did you delete it

                        And your solution to it is?
                        The graph is in the article- with context, so I though it was better. Just click the link.
                        Noting the trend, and how notably different it is from Europe.
                        We are certainly behind on boosters and vaccines, but not having a solution doesn't mean the trend isn't happening.
                        What's your solution?

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by StarTrekDoc View Post
                          Kamban - that's an accurate reflection of status -- clear benefit of getting 2 doses. even better with boost.

                          We're one day off the 8000/day county highs. peaked for two days and down to 6000 (which is double the delta peak days); so about a 1 week in the 5000+ range. Hopefully no return to 8000 level next week.

                          Admissions steady at 60/40 unvaccinated/vaccinated with high risks ; Intubated: 15% vaccinated and as expected with fight chances of recovery --- unvaccinated -- vegas level odds.

                          Omicron hitting lots of the vaccinated and doing more wiping out staffing than anything this past week. We're on contingency mode for next 2 weeks anticipated.

                          Those unvaccinated are simply rolling the dice, even with omicron.
                          What's the % vaxed/boosted in your area?
                          Boosters are, obviously, key here.

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by StarTrekDoc View Post
                            Kamban
                            Omicron hitting lots of the vaccinated and doing more wiping out staffing than anything this past week. We're on contingency mode for next 2 weeks anticipated.

                            Those unvaccinated are simply rolling the dice, even with omicron.
                            That’s been the huge issue here also. Nurses and even some docs having to take days off due to positive tests. Wiped out whole areas of the hospital.

                            Comment


                            • snowcanyon - 80%+ vaccinated; 30% boosted last figures; haven't really looked since Dec so imagine it's higher now.

                              @jagen - Lots of what I call 'glancing blows' of boosted over the holidays. Family dinner; someone brought asx omicron to the party - everyone gets the sniffles Dec ~28 and done by New Years. Then those New Years surge folk brought to Urgent care and sheer loads eventually blew through UC precautions and sidelined essentially entire UC staff last week. Mainly float staff now manning the UC end of last week and next week. -- we're using 5 day; test negative +Mask to get mainline staff back

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by snowcanyon View Post
                                What's your solution?
                                You didn’t ask me but quit alienating those who may make decisions we don’t agree with. Batten down the hatches and deal with things as best we can. It’s clear that the “pandemic of the unvaccinated” is becoming less so every day and alienating people with the current messaging is not helping and is likely hurting.

                                Comment

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