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  • Originally posted by Lordosis View Post
    Why stop at smoking or obesity? Why are we paying for somebody who chooses to be depressed or anxious? That person only got sick because they chose to go to a funeral! That vasectomy was a elective procedure I'm not paying for those complications you had! Why should the taxpayers have to pay for injuries in auto accidents? those people are choosing to drive and they know how dangerous it is.

    At some point we have to realize that we cannot control every aspect of people's lives and people do get a choice and are unfortunately allowed to make bad choices. And unfortunately those bad choices are going to affect the rest of us. It's hard to draw the line where we find those bad choices acceptable versus not.
    Great points. I agree 100%.

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    • Originally posted by CordMcNally View Post

      At least the article I saw it was more of the healthcare is a right population was also the ones wanting to implement no care/more expensive care for the unvaccinated. Made me chuckle.
      Yep there is definite overlap between the "heath care is a right" and the "let the unvaccinated die" groups.

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      • How about masks violate my rights and vaccine status? I'm still wearing one in public and am surprised by the number of people in the grocery store for example not wearing masks. I suspect the unvaccinated by choice are also those protesting the use of masks which makes me wear mine despite being vaccinated and boosted.

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        • Originally posted by StateOfMyHead View Post
          How about masks violate my rights and vaccine status? I'm still wearing one in public and am surprised by the number of people in the grocery store for example not wearing masks. I suspect the unvaccinated by choice are also those protesting the use of masks which makes me wear mine despite being vaccinated and boosted.
          When I go to the grocery store I have found it’s nearly impossible for me to have a close contact or exposure as defined by the CDC. So I consider my vaccine to be enough.

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          • Shopping alone a mask does not bother me at all. Shopping with my soft spoken wife in a noisy store we still wear a mask but it is really annoying to not be able to hear her.

            I am very loud so no problems the other way.

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            • How long do you guys try to talk anti vax people off their misinformation?

              I’ll lean into positive inpatients pretty hard to get them to hopefully share their story

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              • Originally posted by StateOfMyHead View Post
                How about masks violate my rights and vaccine status? I'm still wearing one in public and am surprised by the number of people in the grocery store for example not wearing masks. I suspect the unvaccinated by choice are also those protesting the use of masks which makes me wear mine despite being vaccinated and boosted.
                I love your wording and logic.
                • It starts with the basic premise as it impacts yourself and another. -How about masks violate my rights and vaccine status?
                • Then your actions and actions of others by observation.- I'm still wearing one in public and am surprised by the number of people in the grocery store for example not wearing masks.
                • Next the suspicions and then - I suspect the unvaccinated by choice are also those protesting the use of masks
                • Makes you take more actions.- which makes me wear mine despite being vaccinated and boosted.
                The knowledge and science has been changing and the legal minefield is still in flux. Evidence based medicine and evidence based justice system have not kept pace. Many "facts" are missing in both the medical and legal side.
                I don't think you should be found "guilty" for picking up a sandwich in NYC without your mask. $1000! For whatever reason, a ton of i's to be dotted and t's to be crossed.
                Even if it eventually turns out , why are you punished for actions of another? You are a "good guy", right?

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                • Originally posted by Ekanive23 View Post
                  How long do you guys try to talk anti vax people off their misinformation?

                  I’ll lean into positive inpatients pretty hard to get them to hopefully share their story
                  Depends on my rapport with the patient and which misinformation.

                  If it is someone I know well and they are just concerned about "Long term effects" based on their "research" I push pretty hard and have converted a few.

                  If it is a 5G microchip tracker deal I make a token effort.

                  If it is someone I do not know well I still try but I have been less successful.


                  Unfortunately most of the time they just use it as a way to drag politics into the conversation and it can be difficult to redirect.

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                  • A great deal within the time available for the visit. It IS the #3 killer still so give it that corresponding time to affect change.

                    When the politics card is played, I acknowledge its invasive role and say, I hate it too. has no business in medicine and personal decisions -- let's talk about us and your decision and concerns of the vaccine.

                    With each surge and subsequent real life impact to unvaccinated realms, able to sway folk to vaccinated. It's literally one win at a time now, but totally worth it.

                    I'm that proverbial child at the beach throwing starfish back into the water.

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                    • Originally posted by Ekanive23 View Post
                      How long do you guys try to talk anti vax people off their misinformation?
                      I’ll lean into positive inpatients pretty hard to get them to hopefully share their story
                      I see two types of “Anti-Covid vaccination” camps here, mostly.

                      The first, and most common at my place, is actually the liberal, democratic one. Many minority community members here are deeply distrustful of the vaccine based on a nebulous feeling of conspiracy concerning their specific community.

                      The second, and only slightly less common camp, is the conservative, republican one. These tend to be white people who basically resent the government for trying to control them, and therefore refuse the vaccine based on stubborn obstinance.

                      I’ve really only seen maybe a couple wack-jobs, talking about computer chips, and lizard people, and such.

                      Lately, I don’t see a lot of unvaccinated people, except the really young, as the summer delta wave and popularity of the vaccine, cracked a lot of the resistance.

                      I’ve dealt with it the same way, for a long time……. I tell them an, “awe shucks” story specifically about how most of our vaccinated old people are doing well lately as opposed to the pre-vaccine disaster. Then I tell them about one or two of the healthy, young unvaccinated cases I saw who died, or have severe, permanent lung damage. There is no confrontation, and no hard feelings.

                      I try to tell the stories well, so that they come directly from my heart, and enter directly into the heart of the listener. I normally use loose mirroring of their body posture, and speak in a style and inflection loosely similar to the listener, with slightly less energy and volume than their own, to draw them forward. I don’t try to position myself superiorly or try to convey my expertness.

                      I don’t pause for reaction, or rebuttal, but seamlessly move on. I give them no firm wall to push against.
                      You can often see the wheels in their head turning afterwards, and ther facial expressions will tell you when the story sticks and the seed is planted, which is often.

                      People are genetically programmed to respond to stories, not statistics.

                      Comment


                      • Yeah. The majority of vaccine hesitancy is in the traditional population now. There remains a vocal population of independent minded Americans who do seek medical care, but that has shrunk significantly after Delta summer wave.

                        On the mandate side:. As always money drives the ultimate decision. Some faster than others. Not surprised on the players.

                        Some of the largest U.S. hospital systems have dropped Covid-19 vaccine mandates for staff after a federal judge temporarily halted a Biden administration mandate that healthcare workers get the shots.

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                        • Here we go again.

                          This is a developing story. More details will be published when they are available. Correction: an earlier headline on this story said Cornell’s campus is “shut down” entirely, but staff and faculty are still reporting to work. Facilites are being closed to students. More info below. ITHACA, N.Y.—The Tompkins County Health Department reported four more […]


                          I truly believe last year's holiday new year bump was supercharged with returning college students into households and they subsequently mixing with local friends and introducing to households.

                          new variant Omicron is surging at the worst possible time and this will be the real stress test on vaccine efficacy, boosted, and prior infections....let alone the remaining unvaccinated.

                          Hopefully the play will find a different ending than our Jan hospitalization numbers.

                          Good news front....Pfizer med looks a bit better for high risk. Would be good to see that available soon
                          Bad news front...regeneron doesn't look as good vs Omicron.

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by StarTrekDoc View Post
                            Here we go again.

                            This is a developing story. More details will be published when they are available. Correction: an earlier headline on this story said Cornell’s campus is “shut down” entirely, but staff and faculty are still reporting to work. Facilites are being closed to students. More info below. ITHACA, N.Y.—The Tompkins County Health Department reported four more […]


                            I truly believe last year's holiday new year bump was supercharged with returning college students into households and they subsequently mixing with local friends and introducing to households.

                            new variant Omicron is surging at the worst possible time and this will be the real stress test on vaccine efficacy, boosted, and prior infections....let alone the remaining unvaccinated.

                            Hopefully the play will find a different ending than our Jan hospitalization numbers.

                            Good news front....Pfizer med looks a bit better for high risk. Would be good to see that available soon
                            Bad news front...regeneron doesn't look as good vs Omicron.
                            we still have a testing problem. you need to test early to get the pfizer drug while its most effective and that can be a problem. i'm not optimistic about hospitalizations in january. can't believe this is still going to be a problem a year after jabs came out

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by triad View Post

                              we still have a testing problem. you need to test early to get the pfizer drug while its most effective and that can be a problem. i'm not optimistic about hospitalizations in january. can't believe this is still going to be a problem a year after jabs came out

                              US is 67th on the list of countries in terms of % vaccinated.....so terrible.

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                              • our turn around is <12 hours for PCR; rapid is 15minutes for healthcareworkers.


                                The hard part we're running into is Influenza A is starting to pickup and testing covid neg, but the swabs we're using doesn't reflex to Influenza A/B since only running PCR covid This is resulting retesting and delay in tamiflu or other isolation efforts for flu.

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