Medical Discussion of Coronavirus

[jacoavlu]

dividing citizens into A / B groups and turning one group into outcasts or prisoners has tended to look bad in hindsight

[FIREshrink]

The approach should probably shift strongly to how we can live with Covid from here on out, and away from eradication.

Who's still taking about eradication, or been talking about it in the last eighteen months?

I’m actually quite happy with how the “no closures /open door”approach to Covid works here...

I’m happy I’m here rather than other states that handle things differently.

Florida has had an overall death rate 250% of my state. Why are you happy about that?

[jacoavlu]

Florida has had an overall death rate 250% of my state. Why are you happy about that?

this is such a typical anonymous internet reply. to read what Jaqen, wrote and then type that.

[CordMcNally]

Florida has had an overall death rate 250% of my state. Why are you happy about that?

I don't think Jaqen Haghar MD is cheering for deaths. I think they're cheering for the fact that the people made their decision and it was to live their lives and deal with the consequences of that decision. Personal freedom some might call it.

[FIREshrink]

I don't think Jaqen Haghar MD is cheering for deaths. I think they're cheering for the fact that the people made their decision and it was to live their lives and deal with the consequences of that decision. Personal freedom some might call it.

Many of the people who died didn't choose to die. It's not like choosing to wear a motorcycle helmet, or a seat belt. The decision to mask, get vaccinated, limit large social gatherings, etc invariably impacts not just the decision makers but myriad people in their communities. There is no freedom which is entirely unrestrained. In the last two years, freedom to or from resulted in the deaths of tens of thousands of Floridians that other states did not experience. That's a real cost that has to be weighed against the freedom you speak of.

Certainly ok if he (you) believes that price was worth paying, but let's not ignore that cost.

[CordMcNally]

Many of the people who died didn't choose to die. It's not like choosing to wear a motorcycle helmet, or a seat belt. The decision to mask, get vaccinated, limit large social gatherings, etc invariably impacts not just the decision makers but myriad people in their communities. There is no freedom which is entirely unrestrained. In the last two years, freedom to or from resulted in the deaths of tens of thousands of Floridians that other states did not experience. That's a real cost that has to be weighed against the freedom you speak of.

Certainly ok if he (you) believes that price was worth paying, but let's not ignore that cost.

I didn't say they all chose to die but many chose to live their life. Those who weren't comfortable likely got vaccinated, wore a mask at all times, didn't get together in large social settings, etc. I'm sure some of these people ended up with COVID and some even died but that's the beautiful part of personal freedom. Every one of those people made decisions based on their personal risk tolerance. If someone had a risk tolerance of 0% then they wouldn't have ever been around anyone for anything. Few, if any, people have went to that extreme but it is an option. This is going to be a voting issue and I think you'll see the voters would prefer personal freedom.

[setsail26]

Couple thoughts. One is that here in Minnesota we are not having the high peak and rapid decline of somewhere like Florida. It just seems to be going on and on. Is that because kids wear masks at school and more people are vaccinated? Does that just drag it out? Also, while I see the appeal of "let those silly people who didn't get vaccinated get sick and die" I see the other side of "normal" patients getting terrible care at the hospital because we don't have beds or nurses. Kinda rough to send people home from the ER on 6 liters of oxygen (no, we don't have a hospital at home program) or have to look all over town to find somewhere to send a patient with complete heart block and a pulse of 30 to get a pacemaker. COVID continues to make health care suck for an awful lot of people that don't have COVID. That's why it is about so much more than personal freedom to do the wrong thing.

[xraygoggles]

It's possible that the looming threat of another novel strain of the virus may motivate some more vax-hesitant people to get the jab. Silver lining I guess.

[StarTrekDoc]

It's possible that the looming threat of another novel strain of the virus may motivate some more vax-hesitant people to get the jab. Silver lining I guess.

Few unfortunately. Just as many will point the pointlessness of fighting nature.

People had the same opinion on smoking and alcohol. Its their freedom to choose right? Yes, until.ones actions or inactions impact public domain.

Second hand smoke. It's proven quite deadly. Same for an infected person in public
One is harder to detect and control, hence the more controversial actions taken by some governments. To deny that it's a public threat to others is equally impingement on those people

The finer point as it's always been is the balance between the public good and the impact of individual freedom.

The needs of the one outweighs the need of the many? Not so Mr Spock 🖖

[CordMcNally]

COVID continues to make health care suck for an awful lot of people that don't have COVID. That's why it is about so much more than personal freedom to do the wrong thing.

There's many sides to that coin and I'm glad I'm not the one in charge of making these decisions.

We've seen that lock downs have significant impact on people, not just in the short term but with some of the long term issues we're seeing now. Not letting children go to school has significant issues for the children and for their families/guardians. Letting the disease run rampant can stress our health care system. Passing spending bills and printing money will have both short term and long term effects. I'm not enviable of the people who have to make these decisions because it will never be unanimously liked or disliked but I think people prefer to have choices about their lives rather than not.

[HikingDO]

It's possible that the looming threat of another novel strain of the virus may motivate some more vax-hesitant people to get the jab. Silver lining I guess.

Unlikely, since the fear mongering press is already writing articles as fast as they can with headlines such as “Covid vaccine MAY not work against new strain”.

[FIREshrink]

I didn't say they all chose to die but many chose to live their life. Those who weren't comfortable likely got vaccinated, wore a mask at all times, didn't get together in large social settings, etc. I'm sure some of these people ended up with COVID and some even died but that's the beautiful part of personal freedom. Every one of those people made decisions based on their personal risk tolerance. If someone had a risk tolerance of 0% then they wouldn't have ever been around anyone for anything. Few, if any, people have went to that extreme but it is an option. This is going to be a voting issue and I think you'll see the voters would prefer personal freedom.

Doubtful that vote for freedom included a disclaimer that they would not infect others or seek out hospital care if they got COVID.

You're not allowed to smoke in really any indoor public place in America any more due to the impact of second hand smoke. Second hand smoke kills under 50,000 people every year. How many people did second hand covid kill in the last two years?
https://www.cdc.gov/tobacco/data_sta...eart%20disease.

[CordMcNally]

Doubtful that vote for freedom included a disclaimer that they would not infect others or seek out hospital care if they got COVID.

You're not allowed to smoke in really any indoor public place in America any more due to the impact of second hand smoke. Second hand smoke kills under 50,000 people every year. How many people did second hand covid kill in the last two years?
https://www.cdc.gov/tobacco/data_sta...eart%20disease.

Second hand smoke also smells terrible and gets all over your clothes whereas COVID does not have the perceived environmental affects on people. You can’t smell COVID and you don’t come home from lunch or from the bar smelling like COVID. I’m perfectly fine if places allow indoor smoking. I know I won’t be going there.

[AR]

This is going to be a voting issue and I think you'll see the voters would prefer personal freedom.

I think you're right about this. Part of the reason people will vote that way is because people are excellent at ignoring externalities that they create with their personal choices.

[jacoavlu]

it would be nice to see some non political pro vaccine messaging. find some reasonable people to deliver a positive message in an objective manner. answer questions. present some data. distance the message from left or right politics. where is the campaign?

this should be done nationally and locally.

because it’s not only smooth brain people that have trouble with the disconnect between a gov mandating a vaccine and then apparently still needing to protect vaccinated people from exposure to the disease

instead it’s yentas on the view shouting someone down who tries to say a vaccinated person can still spread disease, and deranged anti vax people talking about bill gates and lizard people with a gene control master plan

meanwhile my hospital diverted 300 patients last month bc short staffed and were firing nurses who won’t get vaccinated and had their exemption request denied