Medical Discussion of Coronavirus

[Lordosis]

I know, it is ridiculous how people are all up in arms about getting vaccinated. I agree that patients would likely be benefited from the staff all being vaccinated. I say likely because I imagine that it will take some time for a study to demonstrate this. The issue we are having unrelated to covid or the vaccine is that we do not have staff to take care of patients these days. We are turning away patients from the outpatient units because we do not have the staff to take care of them. We are deferring dialysis or transferring patients because we do not the nurses to dialyze them in the hospitals. My concern is that we do not have the available staff to absorb a 10-20% loss of staff. That's why I wish there would just be a federal mandate because there seems to be a lot of people out there that are quite comfortable quitting and not working rather then be vaccinated.

Honestly this would not be much of an issue if there was more people out there willing to work. Then you just pick those that fit the job profile. Part of that profile is being vaccinated. But the problem is is just not enough employees out there looking for work. It's almost like we missed a recession. Like there should have been a major job crunch that got overlooked because the government bailed out everybody. And now the large corporations are able to pivot and pay 15-20 an hour for unskilled labor and hospitals are not able to hire at that level. And even skilled labor like nurses and experience techs don't really make much more than that anyway. It's just a really tough situation to hire anybody in any field right now unless you can pay big money to entice them.

[CordMcNally]

I know, it is ridiculous how people are all up in arms about getting vaccinated.

Most of these people have much bigger issues than just the vaccine. The vaccine is a symptom of a disease for many. I would guess most of the people you are talking about have received all of their other vaccines.

[gap55u]

I recently talked to a patient about Covid vaccine. “I’m not getting those vaccines because they contain aborted fetal cells” <debunk this> Still, it’s against my strongly held religious beliefs about fetal cell research.

later, I send her a message about her 4 meds we need to change because they were tested in part using fetal cell lines. Somehow I doubt her Tylenol, Motrin, PPI, and statin bother her in the same way. There is no FOX News/right wing amplification of the crazy over those meds.

[StateOfMyHead]

later, I send her a message about her 4 meds we need to change because they were tested in part using fetal cell lines. Somehow I doubt her Tylenol, Motrin, PPI, and statin bother her in the same way. There is no FOX News/right wing amplification of the crazy over those meds.

Literally spit out my coffee, love this ^^

[Tim]

I recently talked to a patient about Covid vaccine. “I’m not getting those vaccines because they contain aborted fetal cells” <debunk this> Still, it’s against my strongly held religious beliefs about fetal cell research.

later, I send her a message about her 4 meds we need to change because they were tested in part using fetal cell lines. Somehow I doubt her Tylenol, Motrin, PPI, and statin bother her in the same way. There is no FOX News/right wing amplification of the crazy over those meds.

With all due respect. That was the point. I doubt FOX News/right wing amplification have a global impact. The question is "Why is there not acceptance and protests going on in so many other countries?" Did you read the article? Protests are growing globally. It is a governance problem adjusted to local resistance all over the world.
Not intended for raising the red/blue, CNN/MSNBC or FB or politicalization or the US issues. The globe is having issues with restrictions and vaccine acceptance.

[setsail26]

I actually think a lot of the world does notice what is happening in the US and it is affecting resistance to vaccines. We have certainly seen other countries issues start to mimic our own. The other problem besides messaging is that COVID mandates are such a rapid thing. There are literally thousands of mandates in the US, from speed limits to taxes to vaccines to go to public school. People may not love them, but nothing like the vehement response to vaccines. But all of these are long term and slowly evolving, people get used to them and don't really think about it. It strikes a very basic fight or flight response when people are told what to do "right now." We are all told what to do all day by our government, but it's just part of our lives. Somehow COVID management needs to fall into that, but I have no idea how to make that happen.

[Tim]

"There are literally thousands of mandates in the US, from speed limits to taxes to vaccines to go to public school."
This shows a complete disregard for the difference between laws and regulations and state and local options. By the way, speed limits are at the state and local level.
Equating vaccines to driving, which is actually a privilege and a local option is lazy. Whatever "someone" says if okay?
Not a personal criticism. It is similar to completely throwing out any restrictions on any level of government. "
Remember the 55 mph speed limit? That was due to an "oil embargo", not the safety that the government messaged. How did it go into place? Economic threats.
A lot of misdirection happens. Laws get thrown out. It is called checks and balances. Oh well, the rule of law has a process.

[setsail26]

Your post is extremely political. It's ok not to believe in or follow a rule because you don't like how the rule was made or who made it? Real slippery slope. You think all the medicare mandates we need to follow are passed by congress? School vaccines laws? In case you hadn't noticed, there are a lot of things that cannot be regulated on the state or local level. If that were how it worked, women and people of color wouldn't be able to vote in an awful lot of states. You don't want to follow a mandate, of any sort, that is your choice. You may not like the consequences, but it is still your choice. And frankly people freak out just as much about vaccine mandates whether they are from a business, community, state, or the feds. It isn't like the government has made all the mandates. In fact, the only mandates that are currently in place are for the military and federal workers. I think we all kinda want them not get sick and keep working. This is a forum for doctors. It is beyond clear that getting as many people vaccinated as possible will help end the pandemic. If you disagree with that, you're letting your politics be ahead of your medical knowledge. We can disagree about mandates (and I feel weird about federal mandates for non-medical workers too). But look at this honestly. We try every day to keep people from getting sick and dying. A lot of times we are trying to fix people's stupid choices. Cigarette taxes, such as they currently exist, are totally unfair. They hurt poor people. They have also helped lower the smoking rate a lot. Sometimes you just gotta plug your nose and let the sausage be made (mixed metaphors?) to get to an outcome that makes sense.

[xraygoggles]

"There are literally thousands of mandates in the US, from speed limits to taxes to vaccines to go to public school."
This shows a complete disregard for the difference between laws and regulations and state and local options. By the way, speed limits are at the state and local level.
Equating vaccines to driving, which is actually a privilege and a local option is lazy. Whatever "someone" says if okay?
Not a personal criticism. It is similar to completely throwing out any restrictions on any level of government. "
Remember the 55 mph speed limit? That was due to an "oil embargo", not the safety that the government messaged. How did it go into place? Economic threats.
A lot of misdirection happens. Laws get thrown out. It is called checks and balances. Oh well, the rule of law has a process.

Actually, driving & vax are good analogies: just like how you cannot endanger others via driving recklessly or else face consequences if caught, similarly you cannot endanger others via deliberately avoiding taking the vax when working in a public setting.

It makes no difference if its your city, company, state, or the feds who are enforcing the mandate - that's just arbitrary. Why would that make a difference? I don't get it.

[Zaphod]

Has anyone had their 5-11 year old child vaccinated yet and care to share what side effects, if any, they had? My teenager only had a sore arm and my 12 year old slept for almost a day after her second shot, and am going to get my 10 year old son (others were girls, so I wasn’t too concerned about myocarditis) vaccinated with first dose today or tomorrow. (And yes I know that vaccination risk of myocarditis is less than covid infection risk).

mine got hers this weekend and didnt even have a sore arm, now wondering if she even got it. i thought my arm might fall off, both times, the worst, couldnt even get near rolling on it at night.

[Tim]

Your post is extremely political. It's ok not to believe in or follow a rule because you don't like how the rule was made or who made it? Real slippery slope. You think all the medicare mandates we need to follow are passed by congress? School vaccines laws? In case you hadn't noticed, there are a lot of things that cannot be regulated on the state or local level. If that were how it worked, women and people of color wouldn't be able to vote in an awful lot of states. You don't want to follow a mandate, of any sort, that is your choice. You may not like the consequences, but it is still your choice. And frankly people freak out just as much about vaccine mandates whether they are from a business, community, state, or the feds. It isn't like the government has made all the mandates. In fact, the only mandates that are currently in place are for the military and federal workers. I think we all kinda want them not get sick and keep working. This is a forum for doctors. It is beyond clear that getting as many people vaccinated as possible will help end the pandemic. If you disagree with that, you're letting your politics be ahead of your medical knowledge. We can disagree about mandates (and I feel weird about federal mandates for non-medical workers too). But look at this honestly. We try every day to keep people from getting sick and dying. A lot of times we are trying to fix people's stupid choices. Cigarette taxes, such as they currently exist, are totally unfair. They hurt poor people. They have also helped lower the smoking rate a lot. Sometimes you just gotta plug your nose and let the sausage be made (mixed metaphors?) to get to an outcome that makes sense.

I originally posted an article about various populations that were protesting government restrictions. You chose to make it political. A speeding ticket.
FYI, any rule or regulation stems from the Constitution. Some to government agencies and the remaining to the states. Rinse and repeat. Yes, every requirement or restriction on an individual is based on laws authorized by the citizens. That is how it works. If it is not illegal, then a citizen can do it.
Actually, there are mandates far in excess of the federal workers. At the urging of the Federal government. Like you can't eat at a restaurant or fly or ride a bus. Yes, people have lost their jobs at the urging of policy decisions of government (including federal, state and local). I agree that efforts to avoid and correct "stupid decisions" are a good thing. It is the methods used that puts "government" in a position to require different things. Discontent is present in places other than the US. I have no idea their laws or regulations, but "resistance" is spreading. "Kinda want them not to get sick and keep working" does not support the mass restrictions. Globally, the population is pushing back. We are past the "emergency powers". As far as dangerous conditions that impact, obesity might come close to the top of the list. I don't support any government regulation of a persons body weight. I mention this not to throw shade, but there are limits to government control. Hopefully, that is taken as a non-offensive statement. simply an example that there are limits, "kind of".

[MaxPower]

mine got hers this weekend and didnt even have a sore arm, now wondering if she even got it. i thought my arm might fall off, both times, the worst, couldnt even get near rolling on it at night.

I actually ended up getting my son vaccinated within an hour after my post. We were getting him Covid tested for travel and they offered the pediatric version there, so when he tested negative I just had them do it. He was extremely grumpy the next day, but that’s probably just part and parcel of having a 10 year old boy with 2 older sisters.

[Tim]

Actually, driving & vax are good analogies: just like how you cannot endanger others via driving recklessly or else face consequences if caught, similarly you cannot endanger others via deliberately avoiding taking the vax when working in a public setting.

It makes no difference if its your city, company, state, or the feds who are enforcing the mandate - that's just arbitrary. Why would that make a difference? I don't get it.

One difference is enforcement and jurisdiction is a different path.
Federal prosecutors and federal courts handle federal laws.
Local and state prosecutors and courts
have separate jurisdictions.
Separate sentencing guidelines and detention facilities.
Arbitrary is a little misleading. Separate legal systems and procedures. It’s a technicality yes. But that is how the justice system is laid out. Jurisdiction is determined by the charges. It is actual law, by design. Makes a big difference.

[CordMcNally]

Looks like this South African variant has the markets and many countries spooked. Are we all going to die...again?

[StarTrekDoc]

2% of unvaccinated- yes. Miami is a relative medium gateway for African travel.
B.1.1.529 has a constellation of mutations that can be concerning and may have origin roots from Beta variant which had a propensity of mild vaccine evasion.

The real question is how this will compete against Delta. We had a variant strain here in CA early summer that Delta thankfully snuffed out.