Medical Discussion of Coronavirus

[shady]

How is everyone’s hospital handling the vaccine mandate? Our protocol came out and it’s rather weak but I understand the idea behind it. Essentially if you aren’t vaccinated they post your job online and if they find a replacement you are let go. The thing is, I live in fly over country where even prior to the pandemic it was incredibly hard to recruit any positions. I suspect anti-vaxers will know they are essentially unable to be replaced especially as you look at more advanced degree jobs - pharmacy, NPs, cRNAs, MDs, etc. I suspect they will stand firm on not getting vaccinated and have minimal concern their job is posted online.

[Hatton]

In 1983 I participated in a clinical study for the hep B vaccine to assess antibody response. The vaccine that came out in 1986 was the 2nd hep B vaccine. This one was synthetic from recombinant DNA. The original hep B vaccine was made from inactivated virus collected from pooled plasma. Back in the 80s there was fear of getting AIDS from the original vaccine since it came from plasma. Once the synthetic vaccine came out, there was still some confusion as many weren’t aware that the new vaccine did not come from human blood products. The original one was eventually withdrawn from the market I assume from lack of demand. I don’t believe there was any government mandate but it did become required for many of us health care professionals.

I got that first vaccine in 84 or 85. I never got HIV. It seemed like a good idea to protect oneself since I was exposed to a lot of blood even if there was a theoretical risk from the vaccine.

[StateOfMyHead]

How is everyone’s hospital handling the vaccine mandate? Our protocol came out and it’s rather weak but I understand the idea behind it. Essentially if you aren’t vaccinated they post your job online and if they find a replacement you are let go. The thing is, I live in fly over country where even prior to the pandemic it was incredibly hard to recruit any positions. I suspect anti-vaxers will know they are essentially unable to be replaced especially as you look at more advanced degree jobs - pharmacy, NPs, cRNAs, MDs, etc. I suspect they will stand firm on not getting vaccinated and have minimal concern their job is posted online.

I'm disappointed by the total caving to the brand new online religious exception. This is a large, teaching hospital system so should be setting the example in my opinion. I understand there would be a loss of staff in already strained facilities but personally would call BS on this foolishness and see just how many were actually willing to quit. We've already halted services based on other concerns so an interruption or scale back if needed might be worth it in the big picture. I'd put money that few would actually leave when push came to shove anyway.

[Kamban]

I'm disappointed by the total caving to the brand new online religious exception. This is a large, teaching hospital system so should be setting the example in my opinion. I understand there would be a loss of staff in already strained facilities but personally would call BS on this foolishness and see just how many were actually willing to quit. We've already halted services based on other concerns so an interruption or scale back if needed might be worth it in the big picture. I'd put money that few would actually leave when push came to shove anyway.

United Airlines is in the process of terminating 593 workers due to lack of compliance with vaccine mandate, less than 1% of its work force.

Novant Health in NC fired just 175 of its 35K workers for non compliance.

As the deadline approached all these strong anii-vax holdouts became meek mice and took the vaccine. They needed the job more than their underlying defiance. I am pretty sure that if every hospital and school system and other large organizations mandated it most will comply. Since it is firing for cause they do not get those fat unemployment checks to help them.

But then most employers are spineless. They give stupid excuses like lack of staff if they enforce it. Don't tell me that a neurosurgeon with a 800K paycheck or a pharmacist with a 150-200K paycheck will forgo it because they want to defy their hospital orders. They have mouths to feed at home and will comply.

[Lordosis]

I'm disappointed by the total caving to the brand new online religious exception. This is a large, teaching hospital system so should be setting the example in my opinion. I understand there would be a loss of staff in already strained facilities but personally would call BS on this foolishness and see just how many were actually willing to quit. We've already halted services based on other concerns so an interruption or scale back if needed might be worth it in the big picture. I'd put money that few would actually leave when push came to shove anyway.

Our vaccine rate was about 85%.

4% got the vaccine last minute

5% quit between announcement of the mandate but before the effect.

3% got some sort of exception. NYS is allowing religious exemptions until some court ruling next week so we will see how that holds up.

3% terminated at the deadline.


I am curious what religious reasons people actually claim. All of the major religions came out for the vaccine. I almost asked someone but I did not have the time to fight about it that day.

[CordMcNally]

I am curious what religious reasons people actually claim. All of the major religions came out for the vaccine. I almost asked someone but I did not have the time to fight about it that day.

From what I've seen, it appears they've been using the fact that the vaccine used fetal cells in the production/manufacturing process. A hospital in Arkansas was going to make the people who used this exemption sign another form that they don't use various common OTC medicines that also involve fetal cells in the production/manufacturing process. I know there was big backlash outside of the system so I'm not sure what came of it.

[blippi]

From what I've seen, it appears they've been using the fact that the vaccine used fetal cells in the production/manufacturing process. A hospital in Arkansas was going to make the people who used this exemption sign another form that they don't use various common OTC medicines that also involve fetal cells in the production/manufacturing process. I know there was big backlash outside of the system so I'm not sure what came of it.

nice move.

”soylent green is people!”

[StateOfMyHead]

United Airlines is in the process of terminating 593 workers due to lack of compliance with vaccine mandate, less than 1% of its work force.

Novant Health in NC fired just 175 of its 35K workers for non compliance.

As the deadline approached all these strong anii-vax holdouts became meek mice and took the vaccine. They needed the job more than their underlying defiance. I am pretty sure that if every hospital and school system and other large organizations mandated it most will comply. Since it is firing for cause they do not get those fat unemployment checks to help them.

But then most employers are spineless. They give stupid excuses like lack of staff if they enforce it. Don't tell me that a neurosurgeon with a 800K paycheck or a pharmacist with a 150-200K paycheck will forgo it because they want to defy their hospital orders. They have mouths to feed at home and will comply.

Exactly my thoughts. I commend the employers who have required it except for the very few with legitimate medical exceptions. The chair of a crucial department stepped down due to the hospital allowing unvaccinated staff to use their newly found religious exemption. I suspect he will end up resigning over this so once again admin is stepping over dollars to pick up nickels.

[StarTrekDoc]

Paper tigers and internet warriors. Not surprised.

Few true believers that will fall on their swords. This shouldn't surprise people or employers with a typical demographic distribution.

Ultimately the mighty dollar reigns supreme.

People vote their pocketbooks. Employment is no different.

[CordMcNally]

Exactly my thoughts. I commend the employers who have required it except for the very few with legitimate medical exceptions. The chair of a crucial department stepped down due to the hospital allowing unvaccinated staff to use their newly found religious exemption. I suspect he will end up resigning over this so once again admin is stepping over dollars to pick up nickels.

Honestly, I bet they bring in more money from being able to keep the staff they would have lost over the chair at this point. Not saying it was the best long term solution but Admin isn't stupid when it comes to these things.

[pulmdoc]

From what I've seen, it appears they've been using the fact that the vaccine used fetal cells in the production/manufacturing process. A hospital in Arkansas was going to make the people who used this exemption sign another form that they don't use various common OTC medicines that also involve fetal cells in the production/manufacturing process. I know there was big backlash outside of the system so I'm not sure what came of it.

This only applies to AZ/J&J vaccines, not the mRNA based vaccines. FWIW, the Pope endorses vaccination:

https://www.vaticannews.va/en/pope/n...t-of-love.html

[FIREshrink]

I'm disappointed by the total caving to the brand new online religious exception. This is a large, teaching hospital system so should be setting the example in my opinion. I understand there would be a loss of staff in already strained facilities but personally would call BS on this foolishness and see just how many were actually willing to quit. We've already halted services based on other concerns so an interruption or scale back if needed might be worth it in the big picture. I'd put money that few would actually leave when push came to shove anyway.

My organization said they did not allow religious exemptions unless you attested and received a note from your physician that you had refused ALL vaccines. I don't know if that's the line they maintained but in the end we lost only around 2% of staff.

[snowcanyon]

We have no vaccine mandate, and have been told we never will.

[Tim]

Northwell Health fired 1,400 in NY.

The accounting firm Arthur Anderson fired zero. I wonder how many the other, remaining Big 4 fired. The government can destroy any individual or company they choose and any organization.
The Supreme Court reversed the conviction of AA. Makes no difference. Don’t fight the government, you will lose. That is a fact. Pick your battles, but not against the government.
Employers and individuals don’t have the ability resist under any circumstances.

I find it curious that a requirement for refusing all vaccines but not a mandate for all vaccines. This is a losing battle.

Kidney transplant denied without a vaccine. Patient and donor left try to find a hospital in another state. For some, it’s not just losing a job, your life is fair game. It’s not just the healthcare system, the mandate is all encompassing.

[FIREshrink]

.

Kidney transplant denied without a vaccine.

True but an oversimplification; lying by omission. This decision was justified on the basis of data they had in which they claimed the death rate from COVID for unvaccinated renal transplant patients was something like tenfold higher than vaccinated. Also they reported that multiple other vaccinations were already required to be on the transplant list. Thus COVID vax is just one of many vaccinations, health behaviors (like smoking cessation), and mitigated risk factors that are required to be on the transplant list.