Medical Discussion of Coronavirus

[artemis]

Probably time to start the Ivermectin.

Don't forget to add the hydroxychloroqine + Z-pack + zinc, and megadoses of every vitamin known to science, and also consider adding IV bleach and swallowing an LED. Did I forget anything?

[Nysoz]

Apparently gargling betadine for covid is a thing. Also ivermectin as well as thoughts and prayers

[Hatton]

Just a photo or did you use a specific program?

If you have an iphone you can scan into notes. In the upper right corner tap the circle with 3 dots. One of the options is scan. I read about this in the WSJ. It is a good way to get stuff into your phone.

[Tim]

I really do appreciate sarcasm. But sometimes on the internet, humor loses context. And sometimes we all lose sight the cumulative impact of actions.
1) Linking Tylenol to Covid vaccine employment in a hospital.
https://www.reddit.com/r/nottheonion...l_tums_to_get/
2) Our government placing a “Harmful language” warning on the Constitution. Yes the Constitution May be offensive. The screen shot attached and the following link from the National Archives show the official position of at least some in the government.

https://catalog.archives.gov/id/1667751

These are not related to directly to COViD or vaccines. But they do represent alternative motives or interpretations of using Covid for political purposes to gain the power to change the the country.
Yes,I lean against mandates that are contrary to the Constitution.

It is not the vaccine that concerns me. It is a lack of respect for the legal process under the Constitution.
It is not “Harmful” to read the Constitution nor to take Tylenol. There is more going on than just vaccines.

This is only a regret that Covid is being used as a tool for political purposes rather than science and public health.

[StateOfMyHead]

From what I hear at a major urban teaching hospital system a fancy new membership to the holy church of antivaxers, or something equally as ludicrous, will suffice as waiver for hospital staff who refuse the vaccine. I was proud when they initially announced a vaccine mandate for all employees. While I understand the concerns of religious encroachment their right not to work there and possibly infect patients and colleagues with a deadly virus is not being violated if the hospital is willing to do the right thing and enforce a mandate.

[Sampter]

I really do appreciate sarcasm. But sometimes on the internet, humor loses context. And sometimes we all lose sight the cumulative impact of actions.
1) Linking Tylenol to Covid vaccine employment in a hospital.
https://www.reddit.com/r/nottheonion...l_tums_to_get/

This is to highlight the idiocy of claiming a religious exemption from the vaccine based on the fact that fetal cell lines were used in the testing of them. Decades old fetal cell lines are used to test and/or produce a significant number of medicines and therapies we all take. This includes Regeneron's monoclonal antibody treatment for Covid.....https://www.nbcnews.com/health/healt...covid-n1242740. So when we have a patient that declines vaccines based on that, the next question should be is do you take other medicines that have used cell lines and also specifically are you planning on getting monoclonal antibodies when they are sick.

I have personally seen patients that are declining the Covid vaccines because of these reasons....but also have seen the same ones end up happily getting the monoclonals. Clearly this is not limited to myself. https://www.nytimes.com/2021/09/18/h...regeneron.html

[Tim]

This is to highlight the idiocy of claiming a religious exemption from the vaccine based on the fact that fetal cell lines were used in the testing of them. Decades old fetal cell lines are used to test and/or produce a significant number of medicines and therapies we all take. This includes Regeneron's monoclonal antibody treatment for Covid.....https://www.nbcnews.com/health/healt...covid-n1242740. So when we have a patient that declines vaccines based on that, the next question should be is do you take other medicines that have used cell lines and also specifically are you planning on getting monoclonal antibodies when they are sick.

I have personally seen patients that are declining the Covid vaccines because of these reasons....but also have seen the same ones end up happily getting the monoclonals. Clearly this is not limited to myself. https://www.nytimes.com/2021/09/18/h...regeneron.html

Not talking about false narratives, religious or otherwise. Tylenol is not a reason for denying an exemption.

https://combatcovid.hhs.gov/i-have-covid-19-now/monoclonal-antibodies-high-risk-covid-19-positive-patients

The feds are not "saving' mononclonal's for "temporal" reasons. What's with that? The expect "winter waves" in the "northern states". Just like they expected Covid to dropoff in warmer weather.

https://combatcovid.hhs.gov/i-have-covid-19-now/monoclonal-antibodies-high-risk-covid-19-positive-patients

You may want your patients to have been vaccinated. That is between you and them.

Do you think the Constitution is harmful? The point is the government has different motives besides vaccines. Rhetorical question only. Don't bother to answer.

[VentAlarm]

This is to highlight the idiocy of claiming a religious exemption from the vaccine based on the fact that fetal cell lines were used in the testing of them. Decades old fetal cell lines are used to test and/or produce a significant number of medicines and therapies we all take. This includes Regeneron's monoclonal antibody treatment for Covid.....https://www.nbcnews.com/health/healt...covid-n1242740. So when we have a patient that declines vaccines based on that, the next question should be is do you take other medicines that have used cell lines and also specifically are you planning on getting monoclonal antibodies when they are sick.

I have personally seen patients that are declining the Covid vaccines because of these reasons....but also have seen the same ones end up happily getting the monoclonals. Clearly this is not limited to myself. https://www.nytimes.com/2021/09/18/h...regeneron.html

Yea. I’m a fairly conservative evangelical. That being said, even Albert Mohler, the head of the Southern Baptist Convention, has openly supported the use of vaccines based on a biblical argument.

Without derailing the thread, his argument was two-fold: 1) God gave us science and he values the protection of life. 2) the harm from the use of fetal cell lines has already been done, is remote and is not being done for this vaccine.

It is very hard to use a logical Christian argument against the use of vaccines.

I think (essentially) every adult should get vaccinated, but I also strongly oppose the government mandating it - and the two are often conflated.

[burritos]

I have a patient who is getting 2 tests per week from his job which is requiring vaccine(or testing). He won't get it. His father who was asymptomatic prior to the vax passed away from cardiac(?) event 10 hours after getting a moderna vax. Patient started feeling ill a few minutes after the vax and just worsened till he passed. His half brother was hospitalized and has lingering effects from guillain barre after his vax. His job manager just told him to verbally lie about the vax and that would be enough to clear him. But he won't do it.

[burritos]

I think (essentially) every adult should get vaccinated, but I also strongly oppose the government mandating it - and the two are often conflated.

I agree we shouldn't mandate COVID vaccine. But why don't you? Because of freedom or because it would start a mini revolt?

[VentAlarm]

I agree we shouldn't mandate COVID vaccine. But why don't you? Because of freedom or because it would start a mini revolt?

Because we are a constitutional government.

[Sampter]

Not talking about false narratives, religious or otherwise. Tylenol is not a reason for denying an exemption.

Tylenol was tested using fetal cell culture lines, that is the point that hospital is making. They are just making employees sign a form stating that their belief system is consistent across other medications. https://www.kark.com/news/health/cor...al-cell-lines/

Now, I don't support federal government mandating vaccines broadly, especially in private businesses. I do believe that hospital systems/nursing homes have a duty to protect patients and I do think vaccine mandates are necessary. Now this doesn't mean that we shouldn't consider a more nuanced approach including staff that have recently been infected and recovered, etc. Hopefully more data on antibody levels and duration of immunity will be forthcoming and that can be part immunity/vaccine status.

[Lordosis]

Tylenol was tested using fetal cell culture lines, that is the point that hospital is making. They are just making employees sign a form stating that their belief system is consistent across other medications. https://www.kark.com/news/health/cor...al-cell-lines/

Now, I don't support federal government mandating vaccines broadly, especially in private businesses. I do believe that hospital systems/nursing homes have a duty to protect patients and I do think vaccine mandates are necessary. Now this doesn't mean that we shouldn't consider a more nuanced approach including staff that have recently been infected and recovered, etc. Hopefully more data on antibody levels and duration of immunity will be forthcoming and that can be part immunity/vaccine status.

In a perfect world we could use actual science to make good recommendations but this world is far from perfect. It has to be something simple like vaccines for everybody. Otherwise it will be hard to tease out people who had the infection and recovered within the adequate time frame and if they're refusing to get it at 3 months are they really going to accept the vaccine at 6 months post infection. Also there's a lot of people who were presumed positive and never tested because of symptoms and sick family members. Is that going to count? Does it have to be a lab diagnosis test?

[StarTrekDoc]

Because we are a constitutional government.

You realize this is the same constitutional government has upheld vaccine mandates for the public good.

[VentAlarm]

You realize this is the same constitutional government has upheld vaccine mandates for the public good.

As legislated, not dictated by the king….I mean, president.