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  • Originally posted by G View Post

    For a day or so, I was pretty alarmed that Pfizer gave me lymphoma two days after my shot. Luckily, my adnexal mass resolved in two more days, so I can start recommending vaccinations again.
    Axillary?

    Comment


    • Originally posted by pierre View Post

      Axillary?
      LOL! testicular!

      Comment


      • Originally posted by G View Post

        LOL! testicular!
        I’m suspicious of whoever is giving you the vaccine

        https://youtu.be/g9EUo_jj4Xo

        Comment


        • My question is a booster shot really needed?
          https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.wsj...rs-11631726504
          At least ALL of the scientists aren’t convinced that everyone will need a booster. It seems some will need it, but that is different than a mass campaign or future mandates for a requirement.

          Yes, we have the official recommendation for getting a booster shot. A lot of Pfizer and political capital is behind this push.

          I view this differently than the “hoped for approval” of the original vaccines. A vaccine, any vaccine would be “a miracle”. Fortunately, three were successful. There seems to be enormous political and profit motives entering the process for a booster. Why? Easy answer, political and profit benefits.

          I just wish we could get a straight factual answer.

          https://www.fda.gov/media/152161/download

          How would you vote based on the report?

          Here is the Pfizer briefing that is going to the committee.
          We will see how the vote comes out, but not “why”.

          My sympathies to those suffering “compassion fatigue”, running on empty treating patients that could have made better choices.



          Comment


          • Originally posted by sweetnpsycho View Post

            I guess you've never heard of gulf war syndrome regarding your vaccine challenge. And why are you comparing it to other vaccines. How does COVID vaccine work? Do other vaccines work the same way?

            US government has history of been nefarious under the guise of helping people medically. Look up Tuskegee Study.

            Regarding your last question, isn't that looking for selection bias?

            As physicians, we are supposed to "first do no harm". I honestly can't say the experimental vaccine will do no harms. VAERS reports has been trending up significantly.

            I was expecting higher caliber response with data and what not in support of COVID vaccines. If you're willing to provide data, I have data available as well.

            The option of vaccine or no-vaccine as the main determinants regarding protection against COVID is so myopic and may even be the wrong criteria to select for.
            I don't even know what to say.

            Every time there is a new vaccine we drag out the Tuskegee out in the open. How long are we going to keep up with that charade when a new vaccine or therapy comes and people don't want to take it. It happened and now it well in the past and gone. We also had slavery and other things happen in the past that should not have occurred. Do we drag those every time when we have no sensible rebuttal and just want to oppose something.

            This is a new technology for vaccine. So there are some unknowns. The long term side effects and the duration of action. We are now able to somewhat answer the second that it lasts about 6-8 months with just 2 doses, especially if new variants kick in.

            As to VAERS, have you ever read any of the twenty thousand adverse reactions that can occur with any medication, including aspirin. I am an oncologist. If I said every little reaction for every chemotherapy and immunotherapy I use, and state it can occur, no patient will take it. And many people will die of the cancer than the one in thousand from the adverse reaction. It is all about balance of risk versus benefits. I thought as a physician you should know that but it looks like you are expecting a magic bullet with no side effect at all. Will never happen.

            As to no vaccine what do you suggest - take chances with nothing, use hydroxychloroquine or ivermectin. Or hope we can spend $3000+ with monoclonal antibody for everyone who takes their chances. We don't have the supply, we don't have the money and it does not work in all. I had to go to the ICU recently because a patient of mine was stupid enough to go bare and had severe COVID and they consulted me for pancytopenia ( he died). Every bed in the ICU had COVID, and many were dying. Do you want that?

            Two doses of the mRNA vaccine is the best therapy we have to prevent COVID, or have mild asymptomatic COVID should it still occur or not get hospitalized or die from it even if it more than mild. There is not a better $26 spending in medicine right now. And it is free too, thanks to our Fed.


            Last edited by Kamban; 09-17-2021, 08:32 AM.

            Comment


            • Originally posted by Tim View Post
              A vaccine, any vaccine would be “a miracle”. Fortunately, three were successful.
              More than three: AZ and Novavax are also successful, and I suspect the Russian Sputnik V is as well (as it is an adenovirus vector vaccine). The world got really lucky. Had the pandemic arrived even a decade earlier, things would be looking much bleaker.

              Comment


              • Originally posted by Tim View Post
                My question is a booster shot really needed?
                https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.wsj...rs-11631726504
                At least ALL of the scientists aren’t convinced that everyone will need a booster. It seems some will need it, but that is different than a mass campaign or future mandates for a requirement.

                Well I read through that as well as I could. I think part of the issue is we're testing the vaccine against at least two moving targets. One is the Delta variant which is much more transmissible than the COVID we were dealing with back in January. There's a Kaiser study that tries to control for that but I am a little skeptical since the prevalence of Delta changed greatly over the course of their study.

                The other moving target is that we changed the vaccine goal from complete prevention of contracting the virus over to prevention of serious outcomes. The studies in that pdf define vaccine effectiveness as complete prevention of the disease itself and don't really discuss clinical outcomes. My guess is the outcomes data is out there but not in the paper. I have heard that for certain subgroups serious outcomes were lessened with the booster. So my question would be does the booster improve clinical outcomes in the sense of preventing serious disease? The great majority of poor outcomes today are in the unvaccinated which to me means the effect the booster is going to be small with respect to preventing serious illness.

                I would mention that there is a good amount of discussion of titers but to my knowledge we haven't correlated titers and clinical outcomes.

                I'd also mention that minor vaccine reactions to dose 3 looks to be about the same as dose 2, which is a positive.

                There does seem to be a political push going on, I'm not sure why. Maybe they want to be seen as doing something

                So would I get it? I am leaning towards yes. The risk looks small, I'm in a profession where I am probably exposed frequently, and there is some benefit to preventing even mild disease. I don't get a flu vaccine because I'm concerned I'm going to die from the flu, I get it because I don't want to be in a bed for a week and miss work.

                Comment


                • Patients keep telling me that someone is now recommending the booster at a 6 month interval but no one has been able to point me to a source and I cannot find anything credible. Anyone hear about this?

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by Tim View Post
                    My question is a booster shot really needed?
                    https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.wsj...rs-11631726504
                    At least ALL of the scientists aren’t convinced that everyone will need a booster. It seems some will need it, but that is different than a mass campaign or future mandates for a requirement.

                    Yes, we have the official recommendation for getting a booster shot. A lot of Pfizer and political capital is behind this push.
                    There are many confusing reports on the effectiveness and duration of action of the Pfizer vaccine. And miring it is the feeling amongst some that Pfizer is pushing the booster to boost its profits and not its effectiveness.

                    I was 8+ months out from the 2nd dose of Pfizer and my thoughts were to wait it and see. But unexpectedly we had things come up in India where there was a strong possibility that I or my spouse or both might have to make an emergency trip. As you know the delta variant was rampaging over there and I did not want to chance it by going there with a declining antibody levels and a vaccine given to me in the past that was less effective against this variant. So both of us managed to get the Moderna vaccine as our third shot. I had fever to 102.8 and some aches but surprisingly no chills, which lasted from the 24th to 36th hour and needed only one dose of acetaminophen. I am back to normal and feel more confident facing my patients with a surgical mask. And ready to travel to India should it be needed.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Lordosis View Post
                      Patients keep telling me that someone is now recommending the booster at a 6 month interval but no one has been able to point me to a source and I cannot find anything credible. Anyone hear about this?
                      I believe Israel is giving boosters at 5 months.

                      Comment


                      • In regards to Tuskegee. For anyone who does not know it had nothing to do with vaccines. An observational study of advanced syphilis were the subjects were not treated after the discovery of penicillin. This has nothing to do with COVID. I wish people would stop this reference.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Lordosis View Post
                          Patients keep telling me that someone is now recommending the booster at a 6 month interval but no one has been able to point me to a source and I cannot find anything credible. Anyone hear about this?
                          I think at one point the Whitehouse had mentioned that they were going to recommend boosters at 6 months and I believe that was in the headlines for a while so maybe that's where they're getting their information. I don't believe there have been any official US-based recommendations.

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Lordosis View Post
                            Patients keep telling me that someone is now recommending the booster at a 6 month interval but no one has been able to point me to a source and I cannot find anything credible. Anyone hear about this?
                            No official recommendations that I've seen (besides what the government has pushed for). Unfortunately, I think most of my patients don't really understand the difference. Several have tried to seek out boosters anyways. I'm waiting on official recommendations, but for now, I try to reassure all my non-immunocompromised that a booster is not yet needed.

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by Tim View Post
                              My question is a booster shot really needed?
                              https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.wsj...rs-11631726504
                              At least ALL of the scientists aren’t convinced that everyone will need a booster. It seems some will need it, but that is different than a mass campaign or future mandates for a requirement.

                              Yes, we have the official recommendation for getting a booster shot. A lot of Pfizer and political capital is behind this push.

                              I view this differently than the “hoped for approval” of the original vaccines. A vaccine, any vaccine would be “a miracle”. Fortunately, three were successful. There seems to be enormous political and profit motives entering the process for a booster. Why? Easy answer, political and profit benefits.

                              I just wish we could get a straight factual answer.

                              https://www.fda.gov/media/152161/download

                              How would you vote based on the report?

                              Here is the Pfizer briefing that is going to the committee.
                              We will see how the vote comes out, but not “why”.

                              My sympathies to those suffering “compassion fatigue”, running on empty treating patients that could have made better choices.


                              We know that booster shots are effective in increasing antibody levels.

                              There are Israeli reports that COVID cases nosedived after they started giving boosters to everyone.

                              We currently have more supply than demand, ie people aren't being turned away from getting their 1st/2nd shots because others are snapping up a third shot.

                              We know that the current regimen for the mRNA vaccines is still highly effective at preventing hospitalization and death.

                              We know that in the few vaccinated people getting hospitalized for breakthrough infection, it is overwhelmingly 65+ and/or chronically ill. Young, healthy vaccinated people are extremely rare to be hospitalized.

                              If I had a vote, I would make the recommendation for 65+/serious chronic illness to get boosters but much weaker recommendation for everyone else.
                              ​​​​
                              I predict that we will eventually settle into a "flu+covid" annual shot regimen, probably in the fall.


                              Edit: And...15 minutes after I post this, the FDA agrees with me 😁
                              Last edited by pulmdoc; 09-17-2021, 01:32 PM.

                              Comment


                              • 16+ booster shot given a thumbs down by the FDA for Pfizer booster.

                                https://finance.yahoo.com/news/fda-p...hssrp_catchall


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