Medical Discussion of Coronavirus

[Dusn]

The talk around individual rights typically center around how the unvaccinated affect other people by possibly infecting them. What about obese people causing rising health care costs for other people?

I agree. I’m just talking about the legal authority that the government currently and clearly has. The Supreme Court decided that state govts have the right to mandate vaccines in Jacobson v mass in 1905. Our kids are required to get vaccinated to go to public school. I think part of the reason for the SCs decision is that vaccines prevent infectious diseases that are communicable.

I’m all for laws to lower the rates of obesity. I just don’t know if a ban on twinkies would be held up in court despite the cost to our insurance premiums. But courts have already decided that mandatory state vaccine requirements are acceptable.

[Tim]

The smoking surcharge is actually imposed by the ACA. That’s technically private insurance but the government dictates the terms and it’s the only option for a lot of people. I assume most smokers lie on their applications rather than pay thousands of dollars in extra premiums per year. But it’s also more politically palatable to punish smokers, who I think are easier to stigmatize than obese people for a litany of reasons.

I could be wrong, but I don't think the surcharge applies to private company policies. And i think males get charged for birth control coverage as well. The employee census is used to set rates for an employee (spreading the cost amongst all).

[snowcanyon]

Welp.
System has stated they have no plans to mandate, CMS order be damned.
Doesn't matter- Mu is coming.

[CordMcNally]

Welp.
System has stated they have no plans to mandate, CMS order be damned.
Doesn't matter- Mu is coming.

Good on them for not giving in to a government mandate. Bad on them for being a healthcare facility and not doing it.

[pulmdoc]

Welp.
System has stated they have no plans to mandate, CMS order be damned.
Doesn't matter- Mu is coming.

$14k fine per unvaccinated employee is going to sting pretty hard.

Lost 5% of nurses as our vaccine mandate deadline came and went. Most fell into two camps, "I want a family and I'm scared the vaccine will make me infertile" and "guvment can't tell me what to do." Unfortunately, neither camp was at all persuadable despite my best efforts.

[pysibal]

$14k fine per unvaccinated employee is going to sting pretty hard.

Lost 5% of nurses as our vaccine mandate deadline came and went. Most fell into two camps, "I want a family and I'm scared the vaccine will make me infertile" and "guvment can't tell me what to do." Unfortunately, neither camp was at all persuadable despite my best efforts.

There are some people you can convince of anything except the truth.
#vaccines

[FIREshrink]

Good on them for not giving in to a government mandate. Bad on them for being a healthcare facility and not doing it.

It's a health care system, there must be literally 10,000 government mandates they must follow. Would you say it's good on them if they followed none of them? Or just this one?

[CordMcNally]

It's a health care system, there must be literally 10,000 government mandates they must follow. Would you say it's good on them if they followed none of them? Or just this one?

We can certainly have a separate discussion about government in healthcare but, in my experience, the government makes it more difficult for me to deliver appropriate healthcare. Believe it or not, sometimes the government's guidelines and recommendations even lead to worse patient care.

[Tim]

It's a health care system, there must be literally 10,000 government mandates they must follow. Would you say it's good on them if they followed none of them? Or just this one?

Which government? Federal, state or local? This is the only one that seems to have some issues. Let the courts decide. NEVER been done before. Republican governors were named today as the culprits. The perfect "work around" of not actually having jurisdiction per the Chief of Staff. Not so sure you have the same case in the other 9,999.

[FIREshrink]

We can certainly have a separate discussion about government in healthcare but, in my experience, the government makes it more difficult for me to deliver appropriate healthcare. Believe it or not, sometimes the government's guidelines and recommendations even lead to worse patient care.

Can you name another government mandate in a health care system where you have worked to which you said, "good on them" for "not giving in"? What workaround did your organization establish? What were the consequences? How did the regulatory body/government agency react to said refusal to comply?

[Kamban]

Welp.
System has stated they have no plans to mandate, CMS order be damned.
Doesn't matter- Mu is coming.

Are you working in a strange health system in a different planet.

There is no hospital / health system here that does not accept Medicare or Medicaid. They will b**tch and moan about their poor payments but they will gladly accept it and cannot survive without it. Anytime there is a JACHO audit or a major OSHA violation we get notices. People tremble at those audits and punitive fines. No one wants to mess with the regulatory agencies and no one will mess with CMS.

All of them are just wishing for an excuse to get all their staff mandated to take the vaccine without their CEO imposing it on their own. And not having their staff seek employment at a competing system that poaches them by not having the mandates. Now that everyone is forced to have their mandate they can easily lay the blame on the big bad government and not worry about the staff jumping ship. There is only the shark infested, no unemployment benefits water for the quitters to fall into. The admins were just waiting for this mandate to absolve themselves for having a lack of spine.

Report back in a month on how your system beat the CMS mandate.

[Dusn]

Just a reminder that without government regulation anyone could do surgery and prescribe all meds (NPs, PAs, RNs, the pharmacist, naturopaths, and your nextdoor neighbor).

Unfortunately, it’s moving towards that, but I’ve never met a doctor, even a libertarian one, who wants less govt regulation on this aspect of healthcare.

[FIREshrink]

Just a reminder that without government regulation anyone could do surgery and prescribe all meds (NPs, PAs, RNs, the pharmacist, naturopaths, and your nextdoor neighbor).

Unfortunately, it’s moving towards that, but I’ve never met a doctor, even a libertarian one, who wants less govt regulation on this aspect of healthcare.

Once upon a time the AMA was the biggest opponent of the proposal to create Medicare. They argued it would create a ceiling on physician reimbursement. Instead, it has almost created a floor, and now the AMA is a staunch defender of Medicare, and even Medicare expansion.

[Lithium]

I think the biggest conundrum of this entire thread is what is this healthcare system that employs snowcanyon (I’m in the same part of the country and pretty stumped. I don’t think it is IHC). And why s/he remains on their payroll despite descriptions of abominable policies throughout the pandemic.

[CordMcNally]

Can you name another government mandate in a health care system where you have worked to which you said, "good on them" for "not giving in"? What workaround did your organization establish? What were the consequences? How did the regulatory body/government agency react to said refusal to comply?

Can you name 1% of the 'literally 10,000" mandates that hospitals must follow? I don’t think I could. I don't think there has really been any that have been this public and this dividing for the public. For the most part, hospitals typically go along with any government guidelines involving care because it will ultimately affect their bottom line. Hospitals care about the patient but they care about their bottom line more.